Talk:Beast Wars: Transformers

huh?

What on earth does "mostly due to the surviving Maximals and Predacons being out-of-character to a variable, and others to a considerable, degree" mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.72.60 (talk) 01:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Culture References

Some references that need to be added: The episode 'Master Blaster' was named after the movie 'Mad Max 3: Beyond the Thunderdome' in which there was a character named Master Blaster. He was made up of two characters: a stupid giant named 'Blaster' and and intelligent dwarf who rode on his shoulders named 'Master'. Together they were called Master Blaster, and apparently the name was chosen because of Quickstrike in his giant metal control suit bearing some resemblance to Master Blaster.

Some other references made were the following: "Nobody calls me chicken!" by Rattrap, referring to Marty McFly from the Back to the Future movies, "Persistance is futile" in a Season 3 episode by an unknown character referring to the "Resistance is futile" catchphrase used by Star Trek's Borg, and finally the often used "What's new pussycat?" regularly heard in Season 1, used at least once by Rattrap to Cheetor, is the name of a famous old movie.

I just watched 13.Dark Designs, and there is a scene where Optimus Primal waves a couple of swords around and Megatron just shoots him. That reminded me of a scene in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'. Feel free to add it into the main article if you agree. Cheers. :)

Rattrap or Rhinox: Second-in-Command?

Okay.... we have to settle this once and for all. There are obviously reasons to believe that either of these two are Optimus' second-in-command but we can't keep going back and forth like this. Regardless of Rhinox being the more trusted advisor to Optimus, the show itself has made fairly clear Rattrap's the second-in-command. In "Chain of Command" Optimus put Rattrap in charge. In "Aftermath" and "The Coming of the Fuzors" Rattrap was also in charge even saying to himself at one point "Optimus, how did you do it?" Rhinox, despite not taking any crap from Dinobot who was using this opportunity to appoint himself leader, never truly took command.

But at any rate, regardless of the fact that I think it's pretty clear Rattrap was the true second-in-command, the fact that this is such a point of contention proves there's no right or wrong, and thus Wikipedia shouldn't be referring to either of them as the definitive second-in-command. Maybe there's some way to make it clear that both are lieutenants in different areas? Optimus tends to look to Rhinox for advice and seems to trust him with his more private thoughts, but when he's not there Optimus seems to expect Rattrap to be in control. --148.61.207.67 02:40, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

The "official" things I could point to are 1. 10th Anniversary Rhinox's tech spec says he's second in command. 2. In the final episode Optimus Primal radios Rhinox and tells him to start operation eternity, which Rattrap hasn't even heard of, and Rhinox orders them all around. 3. Going by the tech specs, after Optimus Primal's rank of 10, Cheetor and Dinobot had ranks of 6s and Rattrap had 5s, but with the revised numbers from the 10th Anniversary toys Rhinox was upgraded to rank 8, making him the second highest ranking Maximal online in the revised story. The Timelines Rhinox toy ALSO had an 8 rank. user:mathewignash

The show doesn't explicitly call either of them the second in command, I think that's all there is to it. I don't thnk anything with the toys are canon in the series. After all, the show doesn't include like... three/fourths of the Beast Wars toy characters. Plus, Rattrap clearly isn't Cheetor's inferior rankwise in the show. There are reasons to suspect the second-in-command is Rattrap and there are reasons to suspect the second-in-command is Rhinox. I consider Rattrap second-in-command but I'm not of the opinion that Wikipedia should reflect as such because it's been up for debate for a long time. Hell, Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward's official Beast Wars story bible refers to Rattrap as second-in-command and I'm still reluctant to support the idea that we refer to Rattrap as second-in-command 'cause it wasn't said in show and all the reasons that support Rhinox as well. Wikipedia is supposed to only give facts and the facts show that no one's ever been called Optimus' second-in-command on Beast Wars. --148.61.207.67 06:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Saying second in command was never defined in the show is not honest. They actually CALLED Rattrap second in command in Chain of Command user:mathewignash

Rattrap is put in command during the episode “Chain of Command” but during the “Coming of Fuzors ‘Part 1-2” Rhinox is definitely in command, talking down to Dinobot and giving Rattrap and Cheetor orders. I think putting Rattrap in command during “Chain of Command” was done for humor and because the characters were not fully established yet. Rattrap also clearly says at the end that he does not wish to have any kind of command position. --The Matrix Prime 18:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Rhinox says he wants no command position either in "Dark Designs." While it's very nice that you think Rattrap being put in charge was done for humor, that's an opinion, not a fact, and thus is irrelevant. Besides at the end of the episode they established that Rattrap did a good job as commander in Optimus' absence, Dinobot apologizing for not having followed his commands initially. Regardless, Rhinox is not second-in-command. I'm reverting the recent edit where someone is saying otherwise because they're wrong. Rhinox is not in command in "Coming of the Fuzors", he's off "chasing comets with his mind" playing no role in any of the proceedings except getting Optimus back. Rattrap is the only one doing any commanding, issuing all the orders. In "Aftermath", Rhinox does issue a "command" when he's just heard of what happened to Optimus and yes Rattrap did follow it. However, it was also just something that made sense and Rattrap's certainly not a stickler for everyone showing him his due respect. However, yes, "Aftermath" is an episode that implies Rhinox is second-in-command while "Chain of Command" and "Coming of the Fuzors" both imply Rattrap is. There's discrepencies and obviously not enough fact to make a factual claim on Wikipedia.

Mathewignash, Rattrap was never called second-in-command in Chain of Command, he was given the role of acting commander. While, yes, that does imply Rattrap is second-in-command, it doesn't mean it's stated. However, an argument for Rattrap being specifically labled as second-in-command in this article certainly carries a lot more weight than one for Rhinox. Even the shows creators referred to Rattrap as such in the show's bible. However, since not everyone agrees on that, as I said, I'm not necessarily in favor of that change being made. But to call Rhinox second-in-command based on show's evidence is an out-and-out lie. --148.61.207.67 18:58, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

As someone already said, the official bio and tech says Rhinox is in second in command. In "Aftermath" and "The Coming of the Fuzor" Rhinox is definitely in command during the Predacon attack on the Maximal Base. Later Rhinox decides (not on Rattrap’s orders but on his own command authority) to retrieve Optimus’ spark. Rattrap does not appear to be in charge even after, Dinobot and Cheetor and Rattrap are shown working together, not taking orders from any one of them. Both "Aftermath" and "The Coming of the Fuzors" heavily imply Rhinox as second in command.

This goes on throughout the second season and gets even stronger in third season where even Blackarachnia implied that Optimus and Rhinox were the leader in both "Proving Grounds and "Crossing the Rubicon" and also in the Predacon attack of The Ark during "Cutting Edge" Rhinox is clearly in charge over Rattrap. Finally in "The Nemesis" while Optimus is fight Megatron in Decepticon ship Rhinox is leading the Maximal evacuation and even pilots the Autobot shuttle after the Dinobot Clone sends the Maximals the information.

Even in "Maximal No More" Dinobot is given his first command and who is taking his orders alone with Silverbolt? That’s right, Rattrap! Hardly what the second in command of the Maximals would be expected to do.

Stepping out of Beast Wars, in Beast Machines Cheetor is made second in command without any fuss from Rattrap. The Maximals clearly remember Optimus being their "fearless leader" yet not one of them turns to Rattrap expecting him to issue an order whether Optimus is around or not. Cheetor even comments on how Optimus would have trusted Rhinox but not them in a later episode. When Cheetor assumes command Rattrap does not even make an attempt to pull rank.

Fact is the only time Rattrap in shown in charge is in "Chain of Command" and that it. The both Beast Wars and Beast Machines clearly the writers did not consider him to be next in rank after Optimus and hoped fans would ignore "Chain of Command". Besides, the articles aren’t limited to the TV Show, we have comics and voice shows and everything listed in there, surely the official Hasbro bios pull some weight here, especially in light that the "10th Anniversary" toys were both repainted and rewritten to be CLOSER to the show.

I’m sorry you think it is an out-and-out lie but your opinion there is irrelevant and untrue. Rhinox is second in command, his official bio and tech says so, deal with it. The article can be writen to say he was never expressly labeled as second in command but it never said he was - just that was the equivalent of his position and function.--The Matrix Prime 01:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

What happened in Beast Machines is irrelevant, because much characterization was wrong there, (although Rattrap's diminished position within the group can easilly be explained with his initial inability to transform, his comparative lack of power and his treachery in "The Weak Component.") Anyway, a lot of this stuff is your opinion. "In such and such it appears as if Rhinox is command." "In that episode, it doesn't seem like Rattrap is in a position of command." etc. etc. It doesn't matter how things look to you. The show never called Rhinox second-in-command, end of story. While I disagree with your interpretation of a lot of the examples you cited (for example I think "Coming of the Fuzors" clearly suggests Rattrap, not Rhinox is in charge, while "Aftermath" suggests the opposite) none of that matters. What the show says, not what certain people have inferred, is what matters.

You brought up the toy calling Rhinox second-in-command. Okay, and the official show bible written by Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward calls Rattrap second-in-command. While I would be more likely to go with the one written by Forward and DiTillio rather than one written by some guy at Hasbro, I think they both sort of cancel each other out. Again, while I think the show implies that Rattrap is second-in-command, I perfectly understand your thinking it's Rhinox. If this was a debate about whether second-in-command was Rattrap or... Cheetor or Tigatron or something, I'd think you were foolish, but definitely not in this scenario. There is much to suggest that Rhinox *is* second-in-command, but that's all it is... things that suggest it. It's not unquestionable fact. To be placed on Wikipedia, I believe it has to be unquestionable fact.

One last thing, I think it's probably more likely that the chain of command within the group is fluid. You're right, Dinobot did lead the mission in "Maximal No More" because it was in Predacon ground and he knew it best. The Maximals of Beast Wars don't really seem to be sticklers for chains of command like the Predacons are. That's why I think the more logical scenario is that Rattrap and Rhinox both sort of function as subcommanders to Optimus, and the various other Maximals are all of relatively similar (but fluctuating) rank underneath them.--148.61.207.67 18:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay so far we have:

For Rhinox

• His official Bio and Tec

(10th Anniversary)

• Portrayal in 51 Episodes

(Excluding only: “Chain of Command”)

• The other Maximal treat him as Second in Command

• Rhinox leads the evacuation of The Ark

• Beast Machines implies he was Second in Command

For Rattrap

• The single Episode: “Chain of Command”

(for which there is reason this may have been for humor)

• The Beast Wars show bible

(Can anyone else confirm this? I haven’t read it myself. Maybe a quote or something)

Since we’ve said a lot about this, does anyone else besides myself and Numbers have anything to add? To either Rhinox or Rattrap.--The Matrix Prime 23:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow. Much of that is blatantly untrue. Unless you're able to point out how Rhinox appeared to be second-in-command in, say, "Go With the Flow" with his single line of "Oh no." The fact is only a handful of episodes could possibly be construed as offering us any information whatsoever.

What was so humorous about Rattrap being commander in "Chain of Command"? Nothing about it was played for punchlines. Dinobot solemnly and earnestly admitted he was dishonored by not following Rattrap's commands and Optimus, in all seriousness, told Rattrap he did a good job commanding in his absence.

The episodes of "Coming of the Fuzors" (one of the few episodes that do shed any light on this), implies Rattrap, not Rhinox, is second-in-command. In a brief moment of peace before the battle, Rattrap wonders to himself "Optimus, how did you do it?" Clearly indicating that Rattrap is the current Maximal commander.

I don't have the specific link to Rattrap's show bible article handy, but I can tell you it's found on seibertron.com

Finally, say it with me now, ALL OF THIS IS IRRELEVANT. This isn't a debate on who we think seems the most like second-in-command, this is a debate about who the show flat-out says to be second-in-command. Which is no one. All we have to go on are our hunches and two conflicting reports from official, but non-show, sources that refer to both Rattrap and Rhinox as second-in-command. Referring to either as second-in-command is thus not fully accurate and can not be depicted on Wikipedia. The most we can reasonably say about Maximal rank is perhaps that Rattrap and Rhinox are both lieutenants or subcommanders to Optimus.

Also, you didn't credit your last post on the discussion page which you are required to do. --148.61.207.67 23:16, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for that entirely irrelevant commentary there, but the actual debate is whether or not Rhinox should be listed as second in command. Clearly you’ve said all you have to say on the subject, Numbers, now you’re just endlessly repeating yourself. So now I’m asking if any one else would like to add something, not you, someone else. The fact is that there is evidence in the show and Rhinox bio says he is second in command, it is reasonable to put that in his article, with a note saying that in “Chain of Command” and in Beast Wars show bible (after confirmation) that Rattrap was portrayed that way.

First: The qoute: "Optimus, how did you do it?" is a referance how Optimus dealt with Cheetor, not command. Second Rhinox is ALREADY OFFLINE at that point, which means he cannot be giving orders, which leaves the three Maximals on their own. Thank you for the Seibertron information, I'll try to look it up and see what I find.

Now does anyone else have any relevant input? --The Matrix Prime 23:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what you're talking about when you claim nothing I said was relevant. And yes, I was forced to repeat myself because there are aspects of my argument you continously ignore, likely because they don't serve your point. Also, I wasn't really looking for your permission to respond and will continue to respond up until the moment I no longer feel it necessary.

As for that being what Rattrap meant, to put it quite bluntly... says you. I don't agree and the show certainly didn't make it clear. Of course the show also didn't make it absolutely clear that my interpretation is right, either, and thus I'm not expecting Rattrap to be listed as second-in-command either. The vast majority of your "evidence" is your interpretations of various actions or comments that could just as likely not be what you think they are. Your opinions are not facts.

I don't understand why you have such trouble comprehending that all that matters is what is flat-out stated or made unquestionably clear as Wikipedia is a place for fact and not opinions. Wikipedia only works if the only think it states are facts and it hinges on the hope that people will put their personal opinions and viewpoints on things aside, and realize certain things are facts and certain things are not. If you want to start your own opinion-based website wherein you write a long essay explaining why you think Rhinox is second-in-command, go nuts. The fact of the matter is, the show certainly didn't make it inarguably clear that almost anything you're saying and suggesting be put in this article is true. Until this sinks in, it doesn't seem likely (at this point) that I will stop adding to this, regardless of your preference. --148.61.207.67 05:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Rather than argue about it, I started a section where all evidence can be mentioned on the page. Please feel free to add to it. user:mathewignash

I agree with making a section about it, but I think it really only makes sense to include Rattrap and Rhinox. Some of the characters on that list didn't even appear in the series, and I don't think there's really anyone who's under the impression that Dinobot or Cheetor were the second-in-command during the series. That said, I made what I feel was a fair edit that doesn't remove any of the other information. --148.61.207.67 22:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

This article is about all things in the Beast Wars line. The TV series and the toy line. Discounting something because it didn't make it into the TV series goes counter to the purpose of the article established first paragraph. user:mathewignash

in that episode "chain of command" the maximal VOTE a new leader and are all equal(also the ex decepticon Dinobot gains a vote) so there isnot a second-in-command.in some episode the other robots follow that one with more experience/knowledge in something of particular and this is often Rhinox

Title / Move?

Should this article be put under the more appropriate title "Beasties" considering it was originally a Canadian produced show and that's the proper title in Canada? ☭ Zippanova 17:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

• No as its proper name is Beast Wars as established on the Hasbro Website as well as other numerious areas. --The Matrix Prime 03:00, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Why is there no mention at *all* of it's other title? It seems fairly relevant to me. Especially since series with alternate titles are mentioned usually somewhere in the article. Celynn (talk) 01:19, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Check validity of edits by vandal

Could someone check the edits made by User:209.135.123.8 [1] and revert if appropriate. –M^T 18:11, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

His reference to the Darkside naming of the Predacon ship is with established fan lore. His choice to swap US to Canada is based on the production company being located in Canada, though it may be best to display it as US/Canada given its distribution and relationship to various American companies. Also, I put in information about the Emmy awarded for the show, as I did not see it displayed. Despite being a vague, small award, it's a significant achievment. - Orion Minor

Reply: Only if American Shows put "/[Insert Asian Country where art was done]" in their country list. Personally I think listing only Canada is accurate. --Aldrius 22:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The Darkside is the name of the Predacon Vessel --The Matrix Prime 03:00, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Source? Evan1975 04:56, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Nowhere. It's a fan name with a decent spot on the show. Onslaught Six 11:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Fans came up with the name Dark Side for the ship is based on one line in the show where Terrorsaur says "Welcome to the dark side!" when he greets Cheetor to the ship. It was later used in the video game and in the DVD insert as the name of the Predacon ship, which makes it more official. user:Mathewignash

The Darkside is also listed in the IDW Transformer Beast Wars Sourcebook (page 194), although they do reference this is not the true name of the ship; it was rechristened after it was hijacked by the Predacons. kav2001c 0:420, Jan 4 2010 (EST)

BotCon comics

Are these BotCon comics that involve several characters coming back to life included in Beast Wars canon? Jon Hart 01:54, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

no of course not, just expanded universe-like. Infinare 02:40, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I know this is a very late response, but yes, they most certainly are. The BotCon comics are official Hasbro fiction, and as such, are considered to be in-canon. --Chris Love 00:10, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

• No, they cannot be considered canon in the usually sense. Canon is the TV shows, the comic books, no matter who they're published by are not canon but Expanded Universe. It's not as bad as a ripoff/parallel universe" thing but still not the same as being in the TV shows. --The Matrix Prime 03:00, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

• Uh, no? You sound like some guy who really liked Aqua Teen Hunger Force that I used to know. Said comics are (or at the least *were*) considered full-on canon in the main TF universe. They may not be *now* because 3H, the producers of the old Botcon convention and comics, no longer have the liscense, and IDW is producing new BW material, their status of canon is in question. But it's certainetly *not* because They're Comix, Nut Shoes. And yes that is an intentional shot at your misspelling of Shows. Onslaught Six 11:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

What is cannon when discussing Transformers? It's certainly not as strict as Star Wars (for example). I have never heard any Hasbro/Takara representative say that the TV shows have presedence over comics or vice-versa. For the article, I say leave that choice up to the reader. Crockalley 14:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't really care if you like Aqua Teen Hunger Force or not, its not relevent to this article as you should well know. But this article is about the TV show "Beast Wars". Comic books about the show can be mentioned here but Botcom comics and the like really ought to have their own page. As far as this article in concerned "canon" can be considered as to what appeared in the TV shows themselves. For the rest I agree with Crockalley: the readers can decided for themselves. (and your spelling is screwy)--The Matrix Prime 06:21, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Please site sources that state the TV show is more canon that the comics. Where are you getting this anti-comic book sentiment? The comics mentioned in the article are embedded in the Beast Wars timeline, and thus relevant. If you'll recall, not only was the first G1 comic released before the first episode of the G1 cartoon, but a great many comics were written by the same man who wrote the tech specs for the toys. AND, some concepts in the Beast Wars cartoon came from the G1 comic. Why would you sideline comics now, when in the past they have proven to be in integral part of Transformers lore? Crockalley 14:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Exactly what part of "the readers can decided for themselves" is unlcear to you? --The Matrix Prime 02:43, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Controversy

An anonymous contributor placed in a section called "season 3 controversy." The piece is mostly opinion, and lacks facts, simply stating that "many feel" a certain way and that an even causes "controversy." It should either be expanded upon, with counter points and explanations of why certain decisions were made, or removed. There was controversy around season 3, but it is not being explained in that section.--Orion Minor 21:12, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

This article is in need of cleaning up. Herea are a few things I think should be done:

• The Pilot and Further Adventures sections should be combined to a Storyline section.
• All character information should be added to the characters' seperate articles.
• The Transmetal section should be shortened and link to the main Transmetal section.
• Sequel should be re-titled Beast Machines and link to the main Beast Machines article.

Feel free to discuss my reccomendations. I will help clean up. However, I will be unable to do much in regards to the Storyline as I do not recall much of the series and don't have enough free time to make all changes myself. IceDrake523 20:30, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you on the cleanup, and can offer information on the storyline and/or character info. Regarding the article itself, I propose the following changes, some to enhance on what you have suggested:

• The Pilot section is too long and needs editing. A summary as opposed to a guide.
• The Further Adventures section would be more accessable if it were separated into Seasons 1, 2, and 3. Transmetals would therefore fall into season 2 and Transmetal IIs into season 3.
• Summarise the Beast Machines section and leave a link to the main article.

I can proceed right away with the changes, but would rather this be a joint cleanup effort. (Allriffnoraff 22:37, 16 May 2006 (UTC))

Maybe a bit POV...

Overall, Beast Wars is one of the most beloved Transformers series made as many fans across the world cherish it for its sophisticated writing and in-depth character development.

I think I'd need to see some proof of that as factual data.--Skeev 17:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Clyde Klotz

This guy got to do production design on a Transformers series, won an Emmy and had sex with Gillian Anderson. Truly he is living the everynerd dream. - 219.194.176.65 08:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Cleaned up

I redid most of the page in general, up to Megatron. Also, I removed the Plot Summary and stuff and moved it to Beast Wars (pilot). Yeah. I'll get to the rest Later, maybe. >.> Onslaught Six 06:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Personal comments

In my opinion, he only handicap of this cartoon could be the lack of Air Hammer (the hammerhead shark/eagle Maximal Fuzor). He could have form a sarcastic "comic duo" with Rattrap, or could have been Silverbolt's comic counterpart. Egr, 6/7/2006

Oh, please. If we're going to argue about what toyline characters 'really' should've been included in the artoon, we could be here for a stellar cycle. Skyshadow? Magnaboss? Tripredacus on Earth? Tigerhawk being around for more than three eps? The Ark actually taking off as planned and battling the Nemesis in the finale, plus Dirge, Ramjet and Thrust appearing? The list of stuff that 'would' make the cartoon a lot better is endless... Onslaught Six 00:52, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Continuity tie-in by MR UNSEEN

This is my theory: Beast Wars was originally going to be connected to G1 Cartoon but it's obvious to me that it's not. Here are some of my ideas (note: part of this theory also includes Beast Machines) Oh-pls respond: 1.if the autobots and decepticons had existed for millions of years how did the maximals and predacons come to be 2.when megatron 2 took over cybertron in beast machines wouldn't there be survivors on earth (after all humans and autobots worked together in G1 cartoon 3. how did the predacons gain a foot hold on cybertron (the decepticons were never able to permanently return to cyberton has seen in G1 Cartoon) 4. when exactly did the 2nd golden age of cybertron end, after all it seemed it would last for ever other key issues include the time in the future that beast machines happens in (why the EDC was not involved or why many of the aliens in the G1 Cartoon do not appear any more). I almost fogot: 5. Cybertron was always described to be an artificial planet created by the quintessons, since when was it organic 6. where is unicrons head (it's never seen in the background of cybertron) Again-pls respond

The official line is that BW and BM exist in a universe that merges elements of both the G1 cartoon and the Marvel comics, even though it seems to draw more on the cartoon (a history thing on one of the recent DVDs mentions the Liege Maximo). But you bring you some good points.

Possible answers.

1. Its established that the defeated Decepticons and the Autobots, downsizing into new more fuel-efficient bodies, became the Predacons and Maximals. Maybe the faction name change happened then. Furman's Alignment goes with this line.

2. Possibly Cybertron had withdrawn contact from earth by this tme for reasons unknown (possibly if the Cons were defeated then they wouldn't see any need to endanger the humans any further). Certainly humans are never mentoned in BM.

3. Theres a big gap between the end of G1 and BW. Possibly events transpired that we didnt see, such as the Cons returning. Even the Japanese Headmasters show could be taken as how Galvatron, Scorponok et all were defeated. Alternately it could be that the Maximals allowed em back on in the wake of their defeat.

4. Probably when Megs returned with the virus.

5. As Mat pointed out elsewhere, theres shown to be flowers growing on Cybertron in the very first ep of BM. How is unclear, but there is precedent.

6. No idea. Wasn't it blown out of orbit in the episode with Starscream's ghost? In any case Rattrap does mention it once in BM, comparing it to Megatron's floating head fortress.

Of course, this is all (my) speculation and something we really shouldnt do. Hope that helps.SMegatron 12:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC) ThankS from MR UNSEEN

Article Name

Wasn't the show actually calles "Beast Wars: Transformers"? Shouldn't this article be listed as that? TJ Spyke 23:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

That is indeed the full title of the show. So it probably should be moved. Davey4 05:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Dark Glass Link

What happened to the link the went to the dark glass comic? I tried clicking it but it instead sent me to some random site. What happened? I really wanted to read the dark glass episode and now I can't. 69.141.78.155 14:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

It's broken again, goes to a parked domain. --121.214.104.214 (talk) 14:11, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Article length

Any suggestions on what to do about the gross length of this article? (That's gross as in 'volume', not gross as in 'ew, sticky.') I spent some time yesterday on this article, it took a frazackin' long time, and the editor after me (today) even noted their spell-checker gagged on it. I'm thinking the character section could be moved to a separate article, and very brief identifications of the characters left in its place. Beyond that I dunno. But it's a really REALLY long article and needs help. Salamurai 05:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Beast Wars pack in comic info?

This this page concerns all Beast Wars material (comics, TV show, toys), can anyone provide a synopsis of the pack in comic that came out in the first year of the toy line? Maybe a picture from it too?

Bob Forward

The link at the top of the article for Bob Forward is to a Wikipedia article on Bob's father, whose name he shares. Beast Wars Bob doesn't appear to have a Wiki entry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.107.68.50 (talk) 17:15, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

Units of Measurement

This may not be the best place to ask, but I am not entirely sure where else I can find the information.
I have been trying to figure out some (all, if possible) of the units of measurement. I think I have figured out a couple (correct me if I'm wrong):

• Stellar cycle=year
• click=kilometer?
• cycle=minute?
  

From time to time, they also use ones like minute or month, which seems a little strange. I hope someone can help me out, and I thank you in advance.

Megatron's Spark

I just watched Beast Wars and Beast Machines this week, and I am confused about something: Megatron took the original megatron's spark from The Ark, and never returned it! Or did he? If he did, I didn't notice. Is this a continuity error that the producers of the shows never covered? Is this something I should be concerned with? -Rebent 06:07, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

It was returned in a deleted scene, which was included on the DVD as an extra. According to the story writers, it was officially returned, off screen, at the end of Beast Wars before they left Earth. user:mathewignash

Fair use rationale for Image:Bw starscream.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:Csmegatronii3.jpg

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External Links section cleanup

A penadantic contribution. Several of the External Links are now inactive or have unrelated/suspect content:

1. Official site for Australian Beast Wars DVDs http://www.beastwars.com.au/ - / expired site /search spam site
2. Official Beast Wars US site http://www.beastwars.org/ - silly sub-porn SWF
3. Official Beast Wars UK site http://www.beastwars.co.uk/ - inactive / expired site
4. A3U Podcast Audio Interview With Voice Actor Scott McNeil http://www.a3upodcast.com/node/128 - inactive / expired site
5. A3U Podcast Audio Interview With Voice Actor Gary Chalk http://www.a3upodcast.com/node/159 - inactive / expired site

I can just edit these out if no-one would be offended. Treagle (talk) 11:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Move

The title is wrong.

As far as I can tell, it's called "Transformers: Beast Wars". I don't see why we have it the other way around. --Divebomb (talk) 12:09, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Since nobody cares.....

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. If better sources become available feel free to move/ nominate again. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:35, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

---

Beast Wars: Transformers → Transformers: Beast Wars — Title is incorrect. Would move it myself, but Transformers: Beast Wars happens to be a redirect to this page. Relisted. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 20:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC) --Divebomb (talk) 15:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Mutliple sources show it called Beast Wars: Transformers observe [2] [3] Dwanyewest (talk) 17:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Although I've seen it referred to as BW:T & T:BW, [http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Wars-Transformers-Complete-Season/dp/B0000AGQ3M 1st], [http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Wars-Transformers-Complete-Second/dp/B0001LJCMU 2nd] & [http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Wars-Transformers-Complete-Season/dp/B0002LE9HW 3rd] seasons on DVD are all titled BWT. Earthsound (talk) 20:25, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Official BW franchise logo --Divebomb (talk) 10:01, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Didn't the TV show's opening sequence put "Beast Wars" above "Transformers"? NotARealWord (talk) 13:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't recall though I do remember that the opening lyrices used the term Beast Wars and did not mention the name transformers.--76.66.182.164 (talk) 03:27, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I just looked on-line and found an a video of the intro. Beast Wars was on top. --76.66.182.164 (talk) 03:29, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Given the disparity in official sources, we should probably just go with what makes the most sense, which is Transformers: Beast Wars. Powers ^T 00:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Title/move

While there are conflicting arrangements of the title from official sources, depending on what you're looking at (figures vs. animated show vs. video game) and from what year, perhaps it's best to keep the name Beast Wars: Transformers, or even Beast Wars Transformers.

• If you look at the archived website of mainframe.ca (who produced the animated show), you can see at the bottom that it says "Beast Wars™ Transformers™ © 1999 Hasbro, Inc".

• If you look at the U.S. DVDs for [http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Wars-Transformers-Complete-Season/dp/B0000AGQ3M all] [http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Wars-Transformers-Complete-Second/dp/B0001LJCMU three] [http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Wars-Transformers-Complete-Season/dp/B0002LE9HW seasons], you'll see that they are titled Beast Wars: Transformers.

• The opening titles for the show contain "Beast Wars: Transformers".

• If you look at the backs of 1995, 1996, 1997, and 1998 figures, you'll see them referred to as "Beast Wars: the Transformers" or "Beast Wars: Transformers". Only on the occasional 1997 & 1998 figure packaging and the 10th anniversary figure packaging will you see Transformers above Beast Wars.

• The first specimens Hasbro submitted to the USPTO in 1996 shows "Beast Wars: Transformers" on the front and "Beast Wars: the Transformers" on the back.

• The Play Station & CD-ROM video game was called Beast Wars: Transformers.

• The beastwars.com website called it Beast Wars: Transformers.

Earthsound (talk) 23:04, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

The article really should be Beast Wars: Transformers. Even if the toyline may have put Transformers first, the cartoon series certainly didn't. I've uploaded a screen shot of the title logo for the article. Clearly, the show was called "Beast Wars: Transformers". The article name should reflect this. - Matticus333 (talk) 19:56, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Unsourced Material

Below information was tagged for needing citations long-term. Please feel free to reincorporate this text with appropriate references. Doniago (talk) 19:49, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

IDW Publishing

===IDW Publishing=== Main article: Beast Wars (IDW Publishing) After Dreamwave filed for bankruptcy in January 2005, the license for all Transformers comics, including Beast Wars were picked up by IDW Publishing. A four-issue Beast Wars mini-series, titled Beast Wars: The Gathering, was released in 2006. The series was written by Simon Furman and drawn by Don Figueroa. The mini-series takes place parallel to the third season of Beast Wars and introduced characters who were not shown in the original series such as Magmatron, Razorbeast, and Injector. Other characters who made an appearance are Grimlock in his Beast Wars body (a recolored Dinobot toy) and Ravage in his Transmetal II "Tripredacus Agent" incarnation. Taking place around the events of the season three episode "Deep Metal" (as the Predacons are just installing Sentinel), the mini-series focused on Magmatron, sent by the Tripredacus Council to capture Megatron after Ravage's failure. However, Magmatron had his own agenda - to create his own army from the stasis pods the Axalon had ejected in the pilot episode of Beast Wars. His scheme was partially thwarted by the Maximal double-agent Razorbeast, who ensured the shell program used reconfigured many of the protoforms as Maximals rather than Predacons. The two sides would clash in an attempt to stop Magmatron from returning to Cybertron with a captured Megatron, with some unexpected aid from Grimlock ensuring Magmatron was sent back to Cybertron empty handed. However, Razorbeast's Maximals and many Predacons (led by Ravage, resurrected in a Transmetal II body) were left on Earth, opening the way for future series. The series is important in that it wraps up many of the loose ends that the show did not address – most importantly, what happened to the various protoforms that the Maximals jettisoned. Also the presence of both Lio Convoy and Big Convoy in flashback sequences implies that the Japanese-exclusive Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo animated series take place in the same continuity. The second Beast Wars series, titled The Ascending, debuted in October 2007. A Beast Wars Sourcebook was also published by IDW.

History and development

==History and development== Originally, the series was going to be set in the present, with certain characters from the original cartoon series reborn in new bodies. This was evident in the early Beast Wars toy tech spec cards containing pictures of the Transformers taking on giant-sized forms in the present era (similar to the original 1980s cartoon). However, Forward and DiTillio knew next to nothing about the original series. Since they were given free rein to promote what was at the time a dying franchise, they instead chose a considerably earlier setting with no connection to the Transformers universe outside of a few recycled names. Larry DiTillio revealed in an interview that the decision to make Earth the planet in question was not finalized until the end of the first season. They gave the planet two satellites and decided that they would destroy one moon if the planet was indeed to be Earth. When he and Bob Forward discovered the Usenet group and learned more about the original series, they began to work in classic Transformer elements, placing Beast Wars in the same universe. Contrary to early concept art, the faction leaders in Beast Wars are not the same as the ones in the original cartoon series. This is confirmed when both Optimus Primal and Megatron come face-to-face with the currently deactivated forms of their ancestors (Optimus Prime and the original Megatron) inside the Ark at different points, as well as the earlier episode when the Spark of Starscream inhabits Waspinator's body. The show was originally going to feature a much larger cast of characters, but limitations on CGI at the time meant that the animators had to shorten the cast to five members on both sides, adding new characters sparingly. Bob Forward has credited this as being part of the reason why the show was so successful, because a smaller cast meant he could focus on character development and personality for every character, as opposed to the ungainly task of writing for an entire army's worth of characters. Also, instead of Tigatron, the toy-only character Wolfang was supposed to be in the show, but was replaced at the last moment to conserve money, as Tigatron was a repaint of Cheetor in the toy line, and could thus be a repaint of Cheetor's CGI figure. This reuse of character CGI figures to introduce new characters is a fairly common money-saving tactic for most CGI-based television shows, and was used in Beast Wars to make Blackarachnia (a slight remodel and remap of Tarantulas) and Ravage whose head was a repainted version of Tigatron's beast mode head, mounted on a robot body which was a remodel of Transmetal Cheetor's robot mode body. Susan Blu, who provided the voice of Arcee in the original Transformers series, was the voice director for the Beast Wars series, as well as the voice of Transmutate in the episode of the same name. She went on to direct voices in Beast Machines, Transformers: Animated, and Transformers: Prime as well, making her the longest serving Transformers staff member. Beast Wars was the first Transformers series to include deaths in the television episodes (the original 1980s series continuity had several characters die in the theatrical movie, but no characters died in the series itself, except Alpha Trion). The characters Dinobot, Dinobot 2, Scorponok, Terrorsaur, Tarantulas, Tigatron, Airazor, Depth Charge, Rampage, Tigerhawk, Inferno, and Quickstrike were all killed by the end of the show. Of the ten characters that appear in episode one, only six survived the entire series, and out of these, only three survived to the end of Beast Machines (Cheetor, Rattrap and Waspinator). Notably, Waspinator was blown to pieces or otherwise dismantled in almost every episode of the series, but he never officially "died". Even in Beast Machines Waspinator survives, albeit in a new body and identity, as Thrust. Initially Waspinator was to die at the beginning of season two but because people enjoyed Waspinator as comic relief, the creators decided to kill off Terrorsaur instead. Waspinator went on to become the only Predacon to survive both Beast Wars and Beast Machines (not counting Blackarachnia, who defected in season three of Beast Wars). The third season of the TV show was originally supposed to include an extra episode, titled "Dark Glass", written by Christy Marx. The script of the episode depicted an encounter between Rattrap and the clone of Dinobot, where Rattrap finds the data tracks of the original Dinobot in the Maximals' ship's computer, and goes on a suicide mission to install it into the clone, in a desperate bid to bring his old friend back. However, the script was seen as "too dark" for children to watch, and so the episode was never produced. A considerably lighter and more jocular episode, titled "Go with the Flow", was created in its place. Transcripts of the episode are rumored to survive and it is now considered part of the Beast Wars continuity by some fans, mainly for its explanation on how the Dinobot clone regained the original's personality after Rampage was destroyed at the end of season three.

Marshawn Lynch?

What does his 'beast mode' moniker have anything to do with Beast Wars? I'm going to go ahead and remove this in a few days time as long as there are no objections... Leonnatus (talk) 23:27, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Citation Needed?

Under the cast section it says; Gary Chalk - Optimus Primal, G1 Megatron

Can someone come up with a verification of Gary Chalk playing Megatron from G1? Which season and episode? Perhaps another independent source? I can't seem to find it on IMdB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.94.3 (talk) 00:14, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

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Sources for Episode Original Air Dates?

I noticed some of these air dates for Beast Wars episodes are not what I remember and I wondered where the sourcing was for them. For Example, "Nemesis, Part 2" original air date is listed as March 7, 1999 but epguides, the Transformers wiki and IMDb all list it as May 7th, 1999, which, albeit anecdotally, is when I remember watching it. This extends to other episodes, not just "Nemesis, Part 2". What source are these air dates being attributed to? Count3D (talk) 19:30, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

References