Talk:Baliwag

Copyright problem removed

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Requested move 22 June 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Baliuag. Let me explain: there is a consensus that WP:MOSPHIL is outdated for municipality naming and that the name is unique. On the other hand, there is no consensus whether it should rest at Baliuag or Baliwag. Both names are reasonably demonstrated to be in common circulation, and it makes sense to keep the current title as consistent with the article text, infobox and map. (See WP:NOGOODOPTIONS for policy background). No such user (talk) 10:03, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

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Baliuag, Bulacan → ? – The official spelling of this municipality (and soon to be city) is Baliwag as indicated on its official website - https://www.baliwag.gov.ph/. The seal used on article is also outdated, and contains the former official spelling. The current seal is largely different from the seal being depicted on the article. Using Facebook search results (https://facebook.com/search/top/?q=Baliwag), it will yield substantial results in posts and results of pages which includes the official Facebook account of its public information office (https://facebook.com/BaliwagPIO). I will post two suggestions at the discussion box. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 08:11, 22 June 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. (t · c) buidhe 05:49, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this subsection with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Discussion

Any additional comments:

My two suggestions are — Baliwag, Bulacan or Baliwag. The de jure title according to WP:MOSPHIL should be Baliwag, Bulacan, but per recent municipality AT discussions this is no longer being followed, favoring the global <cityname> only approach for most settlements around the world bearing unique names (like Baliwag), except of course the United States MOS. Seems that someone should revise the MOSPHIL (and also the section at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Philippines), to reflect the majority, de facto consensus at Talk:Cagdianao and Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Philippine-related articles#Revisiting the comma convention for article titles of municipalities. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 08:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Addendum: I believe that further page moves to <cityname> only for uniquely-named municipalities, using de facto consensus at MOSPHIL talkpage and individual RMs for Talk:Cagdianao, Talk:Pagudpud, et. al. as bases, is contrary to the de jure guidelines set by MOSPHIL. I have been warned by veteran admin P199 at Talk:Bocaue, Bulacan before because of thisthese "reckless" page moves and move requests, which according to P199 might constitute WP:BADFAITH page moves. Such page moves are reasonable, with respect to Wikipedia's policies, after the MOSPHIL section on municipalities has been revised. As such, my first choice of suggested title is "Baliwag, Bulacan." JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 10:46, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

• Support the renaming of the name of Baliuag, Bulacan to Baliwag. We need the better one, so Baliuag will be a city according to Mayor Ferdinand "Ferdie" Estrella, I guess. Rdp060707 (talk) 05:31, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

• Support the shortening of name, but Oppose the renaming from Baliuag to Baliwag. Act No. 2711[1], the law establishing the province of Bulacan, provided that the name of the municipality is Baliuag and not Baliwag. However, if Baliuag would ever become a city with its own charter, we have to adopt the name provided in that charter.--ERAMnc 12:01, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

@ERAMnc: maybe the law said that, but I can notice that even some of the provincial government agencies are starting to use the spelling "Baliwag," like this Facebook post of the Bulacan Provincial Health Office about the COVID-19 updates for July 7, 2020. Also some news websites are using that spelling:

• http://rondabalita.news/grade-6-student-sa-baliwag-hinalay-sa-gitna-ng-bukid (Ronda Balita News)
• https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news/regions/733683/baliwag-mayor-2-other-bulacan-covid-19-patients-recover/story/ (GMA News)
• https://news.mb.com.ph/2020/04/13/baliwag-mayor-2-other-bulakenyos-recover-from-covid-19/ (Manila Bulletin)
• https://news.abs-cbn.com/video/news/04/13/20/total-lockdown-ipinatupad-sa-baliwag-bulacan (ABS-CBN News)
• https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1243660/bulacan-covid-cases-rise-to-5-after-baliwag-mayor-gets-infected (Inquirer.net)
• https://www.manilatimes.net/2020/06/05/news/regions/baliwag-tricycle-drivers-are-now-mall-delivery-riders/729468/ (The Manila Times) - JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 07:19, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@JWilz12345: Form the outset it would seem that both Baliuag and Baliwag are currently in common use. The Philippine News Agency still uses the name Baliuag as seen here:[1]. On the same vein, the mainstream media continue to use the term Baliuag in the following:

[2] (Philippine Star)

[3] (Manila Times)

[4] (Philippine Daily Inquirer)

[5] (ABS-CBN)

Perhaps WP:NAME would give some light in naming rules in the English Wikipedia. Per that WP article, wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above. When there is no single, obvious name that is demonstrably the most frequently used for the topic by these sources, editors should reach a consensus as to which title is best by considering these criteria directly. Perhaps a consensus should now be reached first in clarifying the spelling name of the article. Cheers. --ERAMnc 09:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@ERAMnc: if this is the case, then Maayon shouldn't have been titled as such, because of the point taken at Talk:Maayon#Requested move that official name should be used as the article title. I don't know if "Maayon" is the common name or "Ma-ayon," although several sources on the Net (Google) are usinh "Maayon," but I assume many are following Wikipedia's presentation of spelling in titles. Found a source concerning Ma-ayon's spelling (the law that established this municipality in the 1950s: https://thecorpusjuris.com/amp/legislative/republic-acts/ra-no-1203.php). If Philippine laws are be used as the basis for the spelling of WP:AT of settlement-type LGUs (whether laws creating them or laws establishing provinces and mentioning them), I might then lean towards usage of "Baliuag." I might as well request the move of Maayon to Ma-ayon (also after this discussion finalizes).

Regarding the comma convention, I already presented Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Philippines-related articles#Revisiting the comma convention for article titles of municipalities (marred by my flipflops before, and I even initiated a renewed discussion) to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure#Other types of closing requests for the modification of Mosphil to become official (as confirmed by an uninvolved admin), similar to the closure at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Japan-related articles/Archive 27#RfC: Mandatory disambiguation for Japanese places?. Although there is now de facto consensus favoring <cityname> only for uniquely-named municipalities, I feel it's still the best for this matter to be closed by an uninvolved admin, to prevent potential conflicts, as I read a 2014 debate before concerning this. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 15:22, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

(unrelated to Baliuag) - @ERAMnc: I just accessed this law - https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/1917/03/10/act-no-2711/ - and:

The Province of Bulacan, lying on the northeastern side of Manila Bay, consists of territory in central Luzon, and comprises the following municipalities: Angat, Baliuag, Bigaa, Bocaue, Bulacan, Bustos, Calumpit, Guiguinto, Hagonoy, Malolos (the capital of the province), Marilao, Meycauayan, Norzagaray, Obando, Paombong,[Quingua], Plaridel, Polo, Pulilan, San Ildefonso, San Jose del Monte, San Miguel, San Rafael, and Santa Maria.

- it seems to contradict somehow the ordinance of the province of Bulacan stating the spelling of Bulakan, Bulacan, but at least ot has some official standing, unlike the spelling constantly used by the municipal government of Baliuag. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 15:39, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Still a Municipality

The poll for the people to decide if they will be a city or not will be on January 2023 (Formerly December 2022). Hope you understand.

References: https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1183652

112.210.58.135 (talk) 22:27, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 17 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 02:30, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

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Baliuag → Baliwag – By virtue of Republic Act No. 11929. Ratified by plebiscite. Source: Commission on Elections, News Source 1, News Source 2 Exec8 (talk) 16:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support Rreagan007 (talk) 17:59, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
• How do reliable sources refer to this city? O.N.R. ^(talk) 18:18, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

  ​The Manila Times, SunStar, the Philippine News Agency, The Philippine Star, and the Philippine Daily Inquirer (top results) use "Baliwag". —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 00:34, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

  The Manila Standard and ABS-CBN News still use "Baliuag" (for some reason). —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 00:42, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

• Comment. [Revised] I'll leave some points here: (1) The Revised Administrative Code Of The Philippine Islands Of 1917 (Book 1, Title 1, Chapter 2, Article 2, Section 38), as well as Republic Act No. 11546 (May 26, 2021) mention the name BALIUAG. (2) Meanwhile, Republic Act No. 11929 (July 30, 2022) mentions the name BALIWAG. The issue here is: Is there a law renaming BALIUAG into BALIWAG? (If there's any.) Take note that RA 11929 is about the cityhood of that place, which was recently ratified, and doesn't involve any proposal to rename the town-turned-city. I couldn't reply immediately to any further comments, approval or objections, but I hope this one would help. Thanks for your understanding, to anyone who are and will be involved in this thread. Raider000 (talk) 18:34, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

This is the same precedence on the City of San Juan (San Juan del Monte), City of Taguig (Tagig). Same basis on Page 47. --Exec8 (talk) 18:56, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support. (Majority of) WP:RS are following suit with the change (see my comment above). It seems unlikely that they would use "Baliuag" again given how some of them have already been using "Baliwag" prior to the plebiscite (e.g. CNN Philippines, the Philippine News Agency, The Philippine Star, and SunStar). —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 00:53, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Tambayan Philippines has been notified of this discussion. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 01:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support. Per nom and my point on RfM last 22 June 2020. --ERAMnc 12:01, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support. Recent WP:RS that covered the plebiscite use the 'w' spelling. And I don't think it really matters and both spellings are essentially the same name anyway (unlike say Swaziland vs. Eswatini). —seav (talk) 22:03, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support. NewManila2000 (talk) 08:59, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.