Talk:Alférez FAP Alfredo Vladimir Sara Bauer Airport

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move - Unasserted statement, common name is current title per Fuhghettaboutit. MacMed^talk_stalk 21:52, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

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Alférez FAP Alfredo Vladimir Sara Bauer Airport → Alférez FAP Vladimir Sara Bauer Airport — My Uncle's name does not include Alfredo, Please remove. --Johanmpino (talk) 13:58, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. The request contains no evidence, just an assertion, and a simple Google search shows 4,860 results verses about 47, with Wikipedia removed from the search, indicating the common name is the current title over the target suggested by a very wide margin. There's very few results either way outside of a web search and looking at the search results themselves was not helpful.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:58, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Interesting... the article is about the airport, not the uncle, so WP:BLP does not directly apply, but obviously the spirit of it should be respected.

Nor is there any mention in the article of its eponym, nor can I find any mention of him elsewhere in Wikipedia. (If you can, link to it please.) Andrewa (talk) 02:48, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Still no consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:07, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Alférez FAP Alfredo Vladimir Sara Bauer Airport → Alférez FAP Vladimir Sara Bauer Airport — Well second try... I figured who ever made this page confused the Alferez which is a rank with Alfredo that is a name. His name was Vladimir Enrique Sara Bauer, but his second name was not included in the airport's name. He died in a Helicopter accident on October 06, 1977. If you want more info call the Peruvian Airforce. I have a picture as proof but I dont know how to uploaded. Thanks Relisting see below. Andrewa (talk) 20:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC) Johanmpino (talk) 17:38, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose for the same reason as your last request. You have made an assertion but provided no evidence. Google web returns 5,090 results for the current title, excluding for Wikipedia mentions and wikipedia forks and mirrors, verses 3 for the name without Alfredo. There does seem to be a discrepancy in the person's name used, in that search results for the individual do indicate that his name did not contain Alfredo, but given the massive disparity in result for the airport, they indicate that the airport is misnamed. If it is, that would not change what we would call the airport, even if that name contains an error on their end when naming it. I think the best evidence you could provide would be a link to a picture or video of the airport in which it's name is shown at the source, or its website, or other evidence that it is not in fact called by the name of this article. As for the picture you say you have, I don't know what it shows, but please see WP:UPLOAD.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:07, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Comment: I'm not particularly persuaded one way or the other by google hit counting in a case like this. Virtually all of the google hits appear to be from database-driven sites which generate large number of pages about all airports. An error in a single list used to derive those pages could be the cause of most of them. I'd be much more impressed with news reports written by actual human beings local to the area.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Relisting

Obviously a very sensitive issue and some of the principles of WP:BLP apply although the letter may not. It appears a lost cause to me, but I think another week's discussion time will not hurt anyone, and there may be alternatives acceptable to the relatives. I am posting also to the proposer's user page. Andrewa (talk) 20:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Done, see User talk:Johanmpino. Other suggestions of course welcome.

If I were Dictator for Life, I'd certainly rename the page as the relatives have quite legitimately requested, with a redir from the common name. It sets a very dangerous precedent, but hey, life without danger is a contradiction in terms, I'd do it. Perhaps I might seek Jimbo's wisdom on this one, he's the closest thing to DFL (;-> that we have for now. I'm not sure WP:IAR covers this. Andrewa (talk) 20:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Done, see User talk:Jimbo Wales#Wisdom required. Andrewa (talk) 21:11, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

The question of how the Alfredo came into the name fascinates me and may be relevant. True, it may be a confusion with his rank Alférez, as suggested above. Another possibility is that it's a nickname for the airport, perhaps representing the letter A in the local spelling alphabet (pilots are famous worldwide for making up their own spelling alphabets).

If it's a nickname, perhaps the article name should be Alférez FAP Vladimir Sara Bauer "Alfredo" Airport? No, not acceptable. Better to drop the nickname altogether, as proposed in this RM. Interesting. Andrewa (talk) 05:46, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Google web search [1] [2] does support the Alfredo, as suggested above. Google scholar, maps and books return no hits at all. Andrewa (talk) 06:40, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

A reliable source uses the 'Alfredo' version of the name, in 2008.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:42, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, Spanish Wikipedia uses the 'Alfredo' version of the name. Our interlanguage link was wrong and went to a blank page. That isn't to say that Spanish Wikipedia hasn't got it wrong, of course, so my correcting the interlanguage link isn't an endorsement of either name, but rather simple housekeeping.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:50, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Lead

In the fullness of time we will need to make the lead match the title, but I'm in no hurry to do this, particularly while the RM is open. Andrewa (talk) 20:57, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

On reflection, I have tidied up the lead to match the current title. IMO it would read far better if the article were moved, so that we used the correct rather than the common name in this particular case. I am warming to the move. Andrewa (talk) 23:36, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Do you have a source for the 'official name'? I'm still just at the early stages of studying this, but I haven't confirmed (but have no reason to doubt you, obviously) that the official name is different from the name that appears in hundreds of (database driven) sites online and in at least one reliable source (I linked to it, above).--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:44, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

My only source is the proposer of the move, see above. They did suggest contacting the Peruvian Airforce, but that might raise language difficulties for me. I imagine the issue is the same for Spanish Wikipedia as here... In a way, this move proposal is promotion of the corrected name. But if, as claimed, this is also the official name, then I'm getting less and less uncomfortable about using the common name in this instance. Andrewa (talk) 12:43, 12 April 2011 (UTC)