Talk:Abingdon School

Tesdale Ushers

This section seems a bit pointless as there is no explanation of it or its relevance or notability, perhaps it should be removed.--Hontogaichiban (talk) 13:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a warning...

I'm halfway through an edit on this page expanding it and have left a flurry of annotations for when I return tomorrow. I'll finish and clean it and perhaps upload some more pictures tomorrow.

I am a current student at the school finishing this year and am glad to see my school mentioned in Wikipedia, so I want to help out. Please help me help you. ThomasWinwood 23:23, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Thomas Winwood - answer to your query - the new school opened in January 1870 with, initially, Edgar Summers as temporary headmaster. He was later confirmed in the post.

James Cobban

I've just started a biographical page for James Cobban, former headmaster of Abingdon. I've only gotten as far as Cobban's participation in the Second World War, and plan to continue with his career at Abingdon, but I welcome any contributions to the article. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:41, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Small edits

In the list of houses, I've reworded slightly, and removed Lower School from the list of houses - certainly, in my time (1991-1997), it was considered more of a year group (like the Upper and Lower Sixth were). Thanks greatly for the excellent start, ThomasWinwood. Do you have access to MStJP's magnum opus, "The Martlet and the Griffen"? If you have been using material from it, a mention of it as a source would be useful --Motmot 12:33, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I do have a copy of "The Martlet and the Griffin", but thus far I haven't referred to it as a source. As for whether the Lower School is a year group or a house, it seems to enjoy dual status - it's a house in interhouse events like the Public Speaking Competition, but a year group in other matters. It certainly has a housemaster (currently Adam Jenkins; I suppose it was Andrew Broadbent or Russell Slatford in your time, or their predecessors?). Thanks for the thanks. ThomasWinwood 11:07, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Help!

Help! 3/4 of List of notable Old Abingdonians has disappeared

Restored - where did it go??

Also I am unsure whether the word great is good enough to describe the wonderfully talented Olly Minton or whether a more emphatic word should be chosen.

Citation of Sources

I added two flags on the page due to missing sources in the extracurricular activities section and the academic section. I wonder if the rowing claim shouldn't be linked to the mention of "A History of Rowing at Abingdon School 1840-1990, R G Mortimer (1990)" in the reference section, but without having seen the book I can't be sure that this is the "documentary evidence" mentioned. As for the mention of the Russian Department, such a claim should be linked to an online copy of the article, or have the name of the newspaper itself included at the very least. I've also placed an "unreferenced" template in the document to raise the profile of the missing sources, and hopefully encourage them to be discovered. Hopefully someone with the material can sort this out! --Firetrap (talk • contribs) 01:28, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The School in the Press

I have started a new section called "Abingdon School in the Press". This is intended to source mention the school by the press. Based on the comments above in "Citation of Sources", my addition of the Off-Licence incident has been cited from the national press. I have also moved the entry about the matron incident to this section. Is such a section helpful to the structure of the information? Should it be after the History section, integrated into the history section, or is it better placed towards the end of the school's wikipedia entry? The aim of this is that any mention of the school by the press is properly sourced and referenced. Unfortunately, on-line newspaper archives around 1995 and previous years are a bit sporadic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Froggit (talk • contribs) 23:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

About the band

Apparently, there's some controversy at the school about the Japanese band abingdon boys school's use of the school's name. 80.229.152.18 (talk • contribs • WHOIS) has requested that the information about the band be removed from the article; I don't think that's appropriate or necessary, since Wikipedia is not censored, and the fact is of potential interest to readers. However, if we can find a source for the school's objections, that can be added to the "Trivia" section, to indicate that the school does not approve of the band's use of their name. Also, if someone can find better citations for the fact that the band is named for the school — although it seems patently obvious, we should have a source if the subject is controversial — please add it. (The sources I've added aren't quite up to snuff, and should be replaced with more reliable ones.) Thanks! —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:05, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

About the band

Apparently, there's some controversy at the school about the Japanese band abingdon boys school's use of the school's name. 80.229.152.18 (talk • contribs • WHOIS) has requested that the information about the band be removed from the article; I don't think that's appropriate or necessary, since Wikipedia is not censored, and the fact is of potential interest to readers. However, if we can find a source for the school's objections, that can be added to the "Trivia" section, to indicate that the school does not approve of the band's use of their name. Also, if someone can find better citations for the fact that the band is named for the school — although it seems patently obvious, we should have a source if the subject is controversial — please add it. (The sources I've added aren't quite up to snuff, and should be replaced with more reliable ones.) Thanks! —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:05, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the school particularly objects as a recent issue of the Abingdonian newletter positively seemed to welcome the fact. Also I doubt there would be a legal argument anyway, not only is the name slightly different, but they are using it to refer to a band, not a school and so the name couldn't be protected by a trademark, not to mention the band is active only in Japan and not the UK where the name means anything. Besides as Japanese rock bands go, they are very far from hardcore.--Hontogaichiban (talk) 13:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Bishop's Robes

The claim about Bishop's Robes was added without a proper reference (although it was placed in front of the Time ref which contained no information about Bishop's Robes) - anyone got a source on this? If not, it'll have to go. --Firetrap (talk • contribs) 18:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Headmasters

I merged Edgar Summers information here -- since that article was deleted by AfD process. Since it was basically a landslide to delete, I suggest that the other 19th c. headmasters' articles be merged into this section, since they're likely to be deleted and we'd hate to lose this information. -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 16:40, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Off licence

I've removed this as it is untrue. Odd that the only "refereence" that someone appears to be able to locate is not available online and the event cannot be proven! Odd also that the Oxford Mail has no reference to it in the archives! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.109.59.130 (talk) 10:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The articles in question are not untrue, just because an online source has not been cited.

Oxford Mail: There is no mention in the Oxford Mail Archive on their website as the event in question took place in 1995. The earliest date for searching the archive is 1997.

The Guardian: The Guardian has an archive online, but it is a pay-for service. 24 hour access is available for £7.95 if you would like to verify the sources yourself. *However*, if you have a Library Card issued by your local council, access to the News UK Archive is available for no cost at home. Here are the links to my cited sources:

Pupils accused. The Guardian (London, England) (April 26, 1995): p2. (25 words)
http://gateway.proquest.com/openurl?ctx_ver=Z39.88-2003&res_dat=xri:pqil:res_ver=0.2&res_id=xri:newsuk&rft_id=xri:newsuk:newsart:18924717

Public school boys on shop raid charge. The Guardian (London, England) (March 25, 1995): p5. (171 words)
http://gateway.proquest.com/openurl?ctx_ver=Z39.88-2003&res_dat=xri:pqil:res_ver=0.2&res_id=xri:newsuk&rft_id=xri:newsuk:newsart:19238006

To access the archive, you must hold a Library Card from your council. There is no general public access. News UK Archive can be accessed via Oxfordshire County Council's Library service from: http://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/plink/publicsite/councilservices/W/Internet/Council+services/Leisure+and+culture/Libraries/Library+services/LC+-+Libraries+-+services+and+facilities+-+reference+online

Students at a UK University can use their Athens Account to access newspaper archives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Froggit (talk • contribs) 12:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

82.109.59.130, Froggit is right - I had a look and both the articles are there, so there are references - check if your local library allows you to access such resources remotely, or go and ask them if you can access it locally. Firetrap (talk • contribs) 23:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Yep, this incident happened as stated, I was around when it occured, I even knew one of the guys involved (loosely). I think the guy was under a heck of a lot of personal pressure, he was a nice guy. Not the type you'd expect to be involved in something like that.--Hontogaichiban (talk) 22:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Roysse's

I lived in Abingdon in the 1960s and 1970s near this School and everyone called it "Roysse's". Is it still true that in Abingdon at least it is still known by that name? If so should it not feature prominently in the intro? Also is it not what is generally called a "public school", ie one of a few large and old independent, mainly boarding, schools in the UK. I expect the school prefers "independent school" in its PR but, well, call a spade a spade. Billlion (talk) 05:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, you are right that many local people called - indeed some still call - the school "Roysse's", but this is now a nick name only and has not been the correct name for the school since around 1960. The article makes this clear in the third paragraph of the History section. As it has not been the name of the school for forty seven years, it is a moot point whether it should feature prominently in the intro, but, in my humble opinion it probably should appear somewhere in the opening section.

In terms of the nomenclature of public v independent, do you what the difference is in the two names? I'm not sure I do entirely, except that I always refer to Abingdon as a public school and presumed that 'Independent' is some form of official government nomenclature for public / private (as opposed to state) education institutions. Does anyone know if there is a true definition?--hydeblake (talk) 08:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

The school has not been referred to as Roysse's by anyone I know for at least 20 years.--Hontogaichiban (talk) 17:10, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Public school is a very old term that was used to distinguish schools where anyone could attend if they had the money from private tutors. Most independent schools in the UK (esp girls schools) have never been public schools. The correct term is independent and means the school receives funding from parents, there are also private schools which are private and aim to make a profit for the owners. (Abingdon isn't one).--Hontogaichiban (talk) 17:10, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

By contrast when I lived in Abingdon, 1967-1980, it was called Roysse's by everyone external to the School, including for example parents of pupils and pupils talking to non-pupils, and I presume this was so some tome before. Perhaps the point was that in Abingdon saying "Abingdon Schools" sounds a bit odd, so the alternative name persisted.Billlion (talk) 22:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

As I understand the public/independent terminology is controversial, but "independent schools" is the name used by the independent schools council themselves. Now Public Schools still means the big old ones, and a wide definition is those (250) in the Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference , but they called themselves independent schools now too Harrow.Billlion (talk) 20:19, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I just confirmed my memory with documentary evidence. My mother had kept a letter about me being offered a place at Abingdon School from Berkshire Education Authority in 1973. It refers to the school as ABINGDON (ROYSSE'S) SCHOOL. Link to scan of the letter [1]. So in some sense it is "Official" enough to be used by the LEA. Billlion (talk) 16:54, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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2022 controversy section

Hi all, I have just removed a section (for a second time) which contained media trash stories not worthy of mention on Wikipedia. The stories are not notable for an article covering a 750 year history. If all successful achievements of pupils were listed then the article could be 100 pages long so why list negative isolated incidents. The edits are likely to be a grudge based on the fact that an additional article has been created called Abingdon School controversies (which I have added a proposed deletion tag). Racingmanager (talk) 12:15, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Notwithstanding User:Racingmanager's opinion that these facts are trash, they are sufficiently noteworthy to have received coverage in the national and international press. I have restored the link to Abingdon School controversies, consistent with the treatment for Eton College controversies on the Eton College wikipage. I have no grudge against Abingdon School, and invite User:Racingmanager to declare any link with Abingdon School that could constitute WP:COI. Nangaf (talk) 23:50, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

I had not seen the Eton College controversies page before and it is as bad as the Abingdon School controversies page, another article that is clearly not the type of article that should be on Wikipedia, I will also add a deletion banner on to that page to gain a consensus.Racingmanager (talk) 22:09, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

No strong view on the matter in question, but Racingmanager please stop edit-warring. "Not worthy of mention" and "Clearly not the type of article that should be on Wikipedia" are matters of opinion, not fact, and allegations of bad faith ("likely to be a grudge") aren't helping your case either. Dave.Dunford (talk) 08:48, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

I appreciate your comments but is edit-warring applicable to only one of the two parties involved?. The discussion page that I am referring to is Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abingdon School controversies and the consensus is clearly going in the direction that it is not suitable for Wikipedia and therefore surely the edit is justified. Racingmanager (talk) 11:20, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

IMO edit-warring starts with the first reversion (which was yours). And that's a rather partial view of the consensus on the Abingdon School controversies article, which seems to be that the information should be merged back into this article (from which you deleted it in the first place). FWIW I don't think that that article needs to exist, but the information is reliably sourced and I can't see any justification for removing it from here other than a hint of WP:UNDUE. If you think it needs to be balanced by facts about the school's achievements, go ahead and write it. Dave.Dunford (talk) 09:41, 24 February 2022 (UTC)