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Talk:2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid

DisputedEdit

The basis of my criticisms have been mostly swept under the carpet by somebody since my last edit, so let me revive them. They consist of point of view biasing, logical fallacies, and misquoting sources.

First paragraph:

2,4-D is a possible carcinogen per WHO,[4]

Reference [4] is hidden behind a pay wall, and doesn't say much about 2,4-D anyway, so let me summarize: Mentioning the WHO introduces an appeal to authority fallacy. The WHO rates 2,4-D in group 2B, "possibly carcinogenic" to human beings. To put it in context, the WHO also rates red meat and coffee in Group 2B, but processed meat in Group 1, so a more neutral POV would be, "The WHO rates 2,4-D about as likely to be carcinogenic as red meat or coffee, but much less likely to be carcinogenic than bacon or hot dogs". Or you could just not mention the WHO ratings at all since they are highly misleading to the layman. The obvious intention of the lead paragraph in this article is to mislead the layman.

and some ester forms are highly toxic to fish and other aquatic life.[5]

but to quote reference [5] further, "The salt forms may be only slightly toxic to aquatic animals." which is why the ester forms are generally prohibited and the salt forms generally approved. From a NPOV standpoint, both should be mentioned since laymen will usually only be able to buy the safe forms.

Second paragraph:

2,4-D was one of the ingredients in Agent Orange, a herbicide widely used during the Vietnam War,.[5] However, another ingredient in Agent Orange, 2,4,5-T (since banned in the United States), and its contaminant dioxin, were the cause of the adverse health effects associated with Agent Orange.[6][7]

Mentioning Agent Orange introduces a red herring fallacy which is irrelevant because 2,4-D was not the cause of the problems with Agent Orange. Agent Orange was used (along with other chemical agents) because it was a mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T and both were believed to be non-toxic to humans. Not being poisonous they would be allowed under the law of war (a dubious legal claim). However, the other ingredient 2,4,5-T turned out to have been contaminated with dioxin, which is a known carcinogen. This was accidental, and they quickly stopped using it when they found out. Also, I'd like to point out, nobody actually knows if Agent Orange was toxic or not because they never tested it, and nobody has done studies of the effects on people. They are just guessing. Although the lead does allude to the fact that 2,4-D was not the problem, mentioning it in the lead is just confusing and better placed in the history section. The obvious intention of mentioning it in the lead paragraphs is to drag in some negative urban myths to confuse the layman, again.RockyMtnGuy (talk) 23:31, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

A google search found a lot of sites publicizing the connection between 2,4-D and Agent Orange. If you're worried about rhetorical games being played here, I think that telling readers the whole truth up front actually makes it a lot harder for activists to lie with half truths later. Geogene (talk) 21:39, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Well, the trouble is that there appears to be a conspiracy to confuse people and demonize the relatively innocuous herbicide 2,4-D involved here. There definitely are conspiracies on Wikipedia - but these guys can get caught. Nuff said.RockyMtnGuy (talk) 07:50, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
1)The International Agency For Cancer research also classifies it as a possible carcinogen. It's probably safe to leave that statement be. 3) 2,4-D was a component of Agent Orange but I'm not sure it's relevance anywhere but in the history section as suggested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DocTox (talkcontribs) 00:54, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

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