Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Archive 4

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Conversion Succesful

Another Filipino was converted into wikipedia. My classmate Geneva Frances Guyano, was just converted to be part of the network.I have been doing an information brigade to entice people to wikipedia. Justox dizaola 04:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to the wikipedian flock , bretheren , ye have seeen the light . Now join us as we march into Glooooory. just kidding , just kidding  :) Welcome Frances Guyano!!--Jondel 08:33, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

May isa na namang naconvert sa wikipedia. *Proseltyzing ba itong ginagawa ko?* You will see the message after.Justox dizaola 12:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Conversion Succesful

Justox has just converted Jaz007 into wikipedia. Marami akong gustong malaman sa site na to'. Kung pwede, i can add CSS to this site. [User:jaz007]

Welcome jaz007, CSS? HTML? PHP? I think they need volunteer developers for programming, SQL over at the wikimedia, look for volunteer . --Jondel 00:05, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Coordinatorship

I saw that the Jose Rizal Article has no coordinator. I ask:

1. Do u need to be a sysop to be a coordinator

2. Is joint coordinatorship possible?

3. Is there a voting process on that?

Thanks Justox dizaola 06:47, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you need a coordinator? This is a volunteer project. Are there issues that you object to? There are a lot of tough people and trolls to deal with , I know but you can always be be bold, demand consensus, ask for sysops help. --Jondel 06:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

1. There is no coordinator. You can edit at any time but need to accept that your edits will in turn be edited.

2. joint coordinatorship 'with all wikipedians'.

3. You can put to vote issues which are usualy accepted when resolved.--Jondel 06:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Ilokano Wiktionary

The Ilokano Wikipedia, after only about seven months, has now passed the +1,000 pages/articles mark (at present with over 1,500 articles). It's high time for other projects. I believe we can now afford to have an Ilokano Wiktionary. So, I requested for it at meta. And may I also solicit your support, my beloved co-wikipedians, for this project. Thanks! -- Saluyot 14:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

The Ilokano Wiktionary proposal is now approved. Thanks to all those who supported it. -- Saluyot 14:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

City/municipality websites

Since we are on a roll to start making infoboxes for the some 1,000+ cities and municipalities of the Philippines per List of cities and municipalities in the Philippines/completion list, this is a good place to get all cities and municipalities' websites: http://www.dilg.gov.ph/lgu_m.aspx. It is a database of LGUs at the second (first if involving chartered cities and HUCs) level of Philippine government, which are the cities and municipalities, brought to us by the DILG. Note though that while all of these entities list their official websites, not all are necessarily updated (some date back to 2002). However, many of them have their municipal seals, which is a good thing. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 16:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

AFD: Mikee Lee

Pinoy Big Brother housemate Mikee Lee is under AFD. Vote for its deletion or retention at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mikee Lee. --Howard the Duck 04:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Can the admins help? There are a lot of first time editors voting keep. Not sure if it is against policy. --Howard the Duck 07:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The article now redirects to the Teen Edition article. --Howard the Duck 13:04, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Robert and Joan Wallick

Today, June 7, is the 40th anniversary of a new round-the-world flight record set by husband and wife pilots Robert and Joan Wallick. They accomplished their big feat by taking off and landing in Manila. :) --Noypi380 08:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Baguio + bagyo

Hi, I really don't know what to do with this entry, Baguio, as it is incorrect. Original author who wrote the stub and divided it from the entry Baguio City has already been challenged to present proof of validity but has still not come up with anything, only a reference again to the wikipedia. External and confirmable references would be acceptable. I have already suggested that he develop the entry in bagyo. His main assertion is "Baguio (spelled bagyo in Filipino) is the local name given to any typhoon...", local name being the primary bone of contention. The word Baguio as a translation of bagyo is not used locally in the Philippines, either by textbooks or the PAGASA national weather bureau. Please advise. --Haldamir 02:39, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the typhoon reference. The word "Baguio" is certainly NOT the local name used. --Howard the Duck 03:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I was trying to include the definition at the previous section.--Jondel 04:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I found some dubious evidence on an earth science book spelling Bagyo as "Baguio". Justox dizaola 13:52, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Please participate in the poll as to what word should be used at the discussion page.--Jondel 23:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The discussion and poll is found at Talk:Baguio (disambiguation). I've added two more poll questions. --Howard the Duck 00:32, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Spanish-American War

Hi, is anyone interested in helping edit the Spanish-American War so that it could represent Philippine point of view? 23prootie 16:21, 16 June 2006 (UTC)23prootie

I hope no one is interested. It's supposed to represent a neutral point of view. --Chris S. 17:39, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• Question. If an article is under does it have a neutral point of view? 23prootie23prootie

I saw comparisons between Jose Rizal and Jose Marti of Cuba somewhere in the Web. Also we share similar a history and culture. Ninoy Aquino made a study of Latin American society as proposal to understand and better solve problems in Philippine society. --Jondel 00:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey 23prootie! All articles in wikipedia, including those with limited geographic scope, must be neutral in point of view or NPOV. This includes preventing nationalist bias, ahem, ahem, and geographic bias. So, that would mean that an article written in a Philippine point of view is a no-no. If you believe an article is seriously anti-NPOV, you can type {{POV}} on top of the article page (sometimes in the discussion page) and explain the reasons in the discussion page why you placed the tag. Likewise, if you believe that an article is too nationalistic, do the same but type {{globalize}} instead. :) --Noypi380 04:35, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Who is a Filipino?

I don't think this an article, but more of an essay. I don't know what to do with it. (The prod was contested). --Howard the Duck 08:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

There is a Who is a Jew? article that has been around for a long time and apparently gained acceptance. However, in the case of Filipinos I don't think an article like this is necessary. The first section illustrates three aspects of "Being Filipino" that might as well be apply to any nationality. And the second section reeks of original research (in fact, I'm going to delete that second section right now). I suggest nominating the article for AFD. Coffee 10:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we can redirect this to the Constitution of the Philippines? --Howard the Duck 10:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

In Judaism, the dream of returning to the homeland is tied to the right of return, which is a notable topic. The Philippines and US have recently agreed to the concept of dual citizenship which allows Filipinos in the US to vote, etc. I believe the same is true in India, which is trying to lure its people (in the US) to invest in India. Property ownership may be another factor. Anyone can buy property in the US, but I am not sure about the Philippines. If these concepts are not extant then I would have to agree that the article should be deleted. But if these are truly issues, then the article could remain on its own merits. --Ancheta Wis 10:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Thinking about it, if a country has a significant number of its people who are expatriates and yet contribute materially to its GDP with transfer payments, an article "Who is a ..." would have merit. After all, a country cannot survive in the long run if its people leave. Therefore there ought to be an incentive to return or invest in the country. That means "Who is a ..." might matter to anyone with a stake in the future of that country. --10:39, 17 June 2006 (UTC) I see there are 30 million overseas Chinese and that the Chinese are also grappling with the issue. Filipinos are not alone in this topic. --11:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The contemplative response: Agree with Howard, perhaps a redirect to a citizenship article or delete. Articles like Overseas Filipino will be enough for all the economic information, etc. "Who is a Filipino?" cannot use "Who is a Jew?" for a basis, just because one looks for similarities. halatang gayagaya, joke,joke,joke!. That article is a reflection of centuries of discussion especially in the 19th century. It grew with the Holocaust, when Jews sought to find unity when they were almost destroyed as a people, and the Zionist movement, when the Jews sought to return to the land they believe they were promised. Remember the Jews did not have a land of their own in the near past before 1947. There is so much depth there that is verifiable by Jewish scholars, both scientific and religious. On the other hand, our "diaspora" is just a neg POV term for the reality of the Overseas Filipino. Where is the diaspora when 80 million people are still staying put? Where is the identity crisis question? I think, though I could be wrong, that only the Jews, and the Gypsies have that question. --Noypi380 13:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The technical response: A Filipino is obviously either a citizen of the Philippines, or a person related to another current/former/future citizen. Other than that, see this Original thoughts, Original research:) --Noypi380 13:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I think it is a ligitimate article. But I don't think it should be a "definitive" article on who is Filipino (like an article describing what the pythagorean theorem is), but rather a presentation of the different POV's on what it means to be Filipino. I think this would be useful for Philippine related articles because I noticed (maybe it's just me) that many are written from the racial nationalist POV--ie, defining the Filipino in terms of race... I think that it should be very clear that however Filipino is defined, it is only a POV. I think there is enough material and discussion for an article. We have the evolution of the term (although that's already briefly discussed in the Filipino People article). Some define Filipino to include Lapu-lapu; some define it excuding him. Some people define Filipino to exclude people of non-Malay ancestry; some define Filipino to include anyone of any race. Some don't like the term Malay. Some think the igorots and lumads are the "real" Filipinos; some think low-land Christians are the "real" Filipinos. Some think only the constitution should say who is Filipino. Some say only oneself could say whether one is Filipino. The bottomline is that it shouldn't define who the Filipino is (its current tone), but present the different POV's. Check out Nick Joaquin's Culture and History, which is sort of like his contemplation on what it means to be Filipino. I think that would be a good source for some of the POV's...--Nino Gonzales 04:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Well said, I agree na now :O --Noypi380 04:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

New Communist related articles

On a side note, there are apparently new Philippine communist (armed and peaceful) articles out there. Many of which have questionable notability or have big POV problems, but I am hesistant to react eh, there is so much action nowadays, and I don't know if these things are really notable. Basta no propaganda, no advocacy. Thanks. :) --Noypi380 13:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

AFD: Gabon (street)

Show your support or opposition at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gabon (street). --Howard the Duck 06:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The result was no consensus. --Howard the Duck 01:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Philippines?

Perhaps now is the time. --Howard the Duck 10:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Should we? We should get consensus on this. If there is consensus, then I would support the initiative. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 13:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The Tambayan has certainly produced FAs and FLs, but organizing a Wikiproject will greatly help. Although I'm fine with the current setup, we can always take it to the next level. --Howard the Duck 02:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

A few months ago there was an effort to have organized collaborations and produce Philippine-related featured content, but it never really got off the ground... I guess everyone was just preoccupied doing their own thing. I've always felt that this page (Tambayan Philippines) filled the role of a "WikiProject Philippines". Coffee 02:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

With a Wikiproject, we can impose standards and guidelines. Plues, we can add notices on talkpages, which would inform editors that is a part of a WikiProject. With RNBs, you can't do that. --Howard the Duck 02:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

We can expand the Tambayan's scope, but I would have to agree with Coffee that our little tambayan has filled the role of a Philippines WikiProject. I would say that something similar to the Singapore Wikipedians' notice board would be nice, as we would be a step closer to a WikiProject, but not there yet. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 14:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, we already have Wikipedia:WikiProject Philippine LGUs, why don't we just expand that? --Howard the Duck 05:12, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but it might entail a complete reorganization of the WikiProject. If we do have a WikiProject, we should have a new Philippines WikiProject with its subprojects, which I believe are the LGU WikiProject and the Encantadia WikiProject. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 11:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

RP First Ladies Article

Hey guys, I already made a new article about our First Ladies, First Lady of the Philippines. Just visit the article and expand it if you like, you can also put public domain images if you like. Thanks! --Glenncando 20:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I think First Spouse of the Philippines would be better citing the fact that we have two men serving as the First Spouse, but the article itself seems fine with me. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 21:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

You think so that we should change it as First Spouse? --Glenncando 03:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Me too, I think First spouse is better. But Ninoy did not serve as "first spouse," didn't he? --Howard the Duck 03:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

No he didn't officially. But majority of spouses of presidents are women and only one, Mike Arroyo, is the only male First Spouse. Traditionally, isn't it called a First Lady or a First Gentleman? --Glenncando 04:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Why not Spouses of the Presidents of the Philippines? --Howard the Duck 04:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Category:First Ladies of the Philippines is a cat that could carry only all the First Ladies of the Philippines and its main article. This cat then will be a subcat of Category:Spouses of the Presidents of the Philippines, which will include Miguel Arroyo, who is unique, Ninoy Aquino, a spouse who did not serve (Ninoy was removed from the big cat for some reason) and all the other spouses of prior marriages who died or got separated, etc. This bigger cat could have its own main article of Spouses of the Presidents of the Philippines, which will include First Ladies, the First Gentleman, and all the other nonserving spouses, What ja think bout that? BTW Ninoy Aquino is still a "Spouse of the President of the Philippines", irregardless of service. :)--Noypi380 05:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Philippine government is so messy, lol. How about First Lady of the Philippines, then on Big Brother Mike's article, we can mention that he is the only first gentlemen, etc.

Also, the thing is, he died before Cory became president, but anything is fine with me, it that fact should just be stated. --Howard the Duck 06:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

(grinning), I think he's just a "spouse of the president", but not a "First whatever". The "First whatever" is the hostess/host of the palace, perhaps Kris Aquino? (listen to the Kris Aquino fans roaring, lol). :) --Noypi380 09:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry,sorry I :<, I removed spouses of the Philippines from the Ninoy article and will restore it. But is it appropriate since he died before Cory became president? --Jondel 06:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Hahah, don't say that! hehe, lol. I just hoped for a cat that's open to the unlucky deceased spouses of the presidents. There is no such thing as a First Gentleman? Only a First Lady? See Victoria Quirino Delgado first, the daughter of Quirino, a widower. The First Ladies of Tita Cory and Ate Glue are actually their eldest daughters (Kris and Luli?, lol). Ninoy A. and Miguel A. are only Category:Spouses of the Presidents of the Philippines (the bigger cat) I think. Yun lang, hehe. Chill lang Jondel, the pare, dude, lol :) --Noypi380 06:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

*Under Pressuremusic playing in the background* now enterring deep freeze :{ . Maybe investigate, cases for other countries like the husbands of Margerat Thatcher, Evita Peron etc.--Jondel 06:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Okie dokie then, me look too :) --Noypi380 09:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Its really hard to tell what official titles that the husbands of former PMs were. Like, Margaret Thatcher's husband Sir Dennis Thatcher, he was just a simple husband of the Iron Lady and was given a hereditary title after they left office. Meanwhile Eva Peron is not a President back then, she was a Vice President and her husband Juan Peron is the Argentine President. It was Isabel, Peron's third wife became President but after Juan's death since she is in line of succession as Vice President. I think we should vote if we will retain the title "First Lady of the Philippines" or not. --Glenncando 21:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Filipino politician infoboxes

I started creating infoboxes for Philippine political figures, who have not become presidents, since only the presidents are provided with infoboxes. You might just wanna check out: Edgardo Angara, Jovito Salonga, Manny Villar, Jinggoy Estrada, Panfilo Lacson, Franklin Drilon, Aquilino Pimentel, Raul Roco, Juan Ponce Enrile, Miriam Defensor-Santiago and Mar Roxas, I'm still working on the others.

N.B. The highest position the politician has achieved is showed top-most, unless he is currently serving another position. I still have to check on the ranking of cabinet portfolios, as far as I know, the Foreign Affairs Secretary is ranked highest, lowest is the Energy Secretary. -- Scorpion prinz | talk, 13:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

{{Infobox Politician}} fits just right. Also, beware that {{Infobox MP}} is up for deletion --Howard the Duck 13:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way, User:Hera1187 replaced all instances of Template:Infobox Philippine president with simply Template:Infobox President. I created the "Infobox Philippine president" a long long time ago, and it seems the standard "Infobox President" was created just 4 days later. :-> The old infobox is up for deletion. Coffee 17:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Filipino userbox

If any of you all are interested, I created a Filipino ancestry userbox.

{{user filipino}}

This user is of Filipino ancestry.

--Chris S. 05:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Nice one! Mabuhay ang Pilipinas!!!!! Justox dizaola 00:48, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

New information

World class talaga ang Filipinos. As evidence from http://www.presidencyofchile.cl/ it i stated as follows "There are two other objects in the Chapel which also stand as religious icons of quality craftsmanship: a Filipino image of the Virgin of Carmen, made in the workshops of the Augustinians in Manila in the 18th century; and an icon of the Virgin of the Sacred Heart, a replica of an 18th century original made by Pompeo Girolamo Battoni."--Justox dizaola 13:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

op kors! wut do yu tink op us, just just?(Aba syempre, anong akalo nyo sa amin, basta basta?)--Jondel 00:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Jondel, this may just be a good addition to art in the philippines page right?--Justox dizaola 04:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)^_^

Yes Justox, it would. It would indicate our common Hispano-catholic culture and heritage. I will investigate the Philippine art articles.--Jondel 00:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Announcement

As another achievement for the Fil-Wiki community, our third Wikipedia featured article, and the first primarily written by Filipinos, the Manila Light Rail Transit System, will be shown on the Main Page as Today's featured article on June 30, 2006. We can also be proud of this achievement. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 04:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Sayang dapat June 29 na lang para birthday ko... lol :p --Howard the Duck 04:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

But how about the right whale? Actually, I requested for June 12 or October 29, but June 30 is fine with me. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 04:46, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Right whales are boring hehehehe. Well at least, it's a day after my birthday. --Howard the Duck 04:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yehey! Congrats again to Akira! I like the pic of the new yellow line mockup. Nice work. For Howard. Tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock, countdown: 2 days to birthday. :) --Noypi380 05:19, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

MABUHAY ANG PILIPINAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My felicitations to our community! Salud!--Justox dizaola 11:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Proud to be PINOY! --Glenncando 22:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Although I'm happy that the article is receiving plenty of exposure, can one of the admins lock it again? It's being vandalized again! (I thought it would end after Raul lifted the last lock on it) --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 01:31, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Sprotected per request. An admin can lift this when you all deem it suitable. --Ancheta Wis 01:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

It was unprotected, but it seems that the activity has subsided. Finally. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 12:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Every featured article on the Main Page gets vandalized. --Howard the Duck 01:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Well of course every page gets vandalized. I'm aiming now for the MRT to get FA status, but it is shorter than the LRT. And oh yeah, happy belated birthday. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 08:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Well the Main Page FAs gets vandalized big time hehehe. I'd support the MRT FAC. And thanks, btw. --Howard the Duck 08:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

State of Philippine Wikipedias

I have checked Meta on the current proposed Philippine Wikipedias (Pangasinan, Kinaray-a and Chavacano) and the following has happened to them:

• Pangasinan: approved
• Kinaray-a: approved but in need of native speakers (see meta:Requests_for_new_languages/Native_speaker_support)
• Chavacano: approved
• Hiligaynon: ongoing

Other than that, here is the state of the following Wikipedia sister projects in Philippine languages:

• Pangasinan Wiktionary: approved
• Cebuano Wiktionary and Wikibooks: approved
• Ilokano Wiktionary: approved

Hopefully all of them get approved and they flourish. We might have nine Wikipedias in Philippine languages soon, as well as three Wiktionaries and a Wikibooks in Cebuano. --Sky Harbor 16:37, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, indeed! The Chavacano Wikipedia proposal is approved (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages). Thank you for all the support. There wasn't even any opposition to it. :) We're looking for Chavacano contributors and please help spread the word around. Muchisimas gracias con todos! --Weekeejames 04:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

8 Philippine Wikipedias, this is great! And wiktionaries and a wikibook to boot. So now, I also requested for the Ilokano Wiktionary. I hope for your support, guys. -- Saluyot 14:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

The Ilokano Wiktionary is now approved. -- Saluyot 15:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Call me a killjoy, but I think the Tagalog wikipedia is useless, for English is the medium of instruction. Dunno about the other languages. --Howard the Duck | talk, 15:39, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Not necessarily. How about those who need encyclopedia-grade information but cannot speak English? The Philippine Wikipedias I think are the only encyclopedias written in Philippine tongues, and although I concede that we're not always active there (my last edit in the Tagalog Wikipedia was I think over a month ago), there is still some use for them. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 16:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

One of the objectives of Wikipedia is to have a free-content encylopedia in all languages and Tagalog is no exception. As of now, the Tagalog Wikipedia has more than 2,800 articles and the largest Wikipedia among the Philippine-based languages. Although there are only few well-written articles and there are a lot of stubs and articles for cleanup. Also, there are only about 3 active users out of 800 registered users. It might be good if some of you guys will help to improve the articles in the Tagalog Wikepedia and some of you can also volunteer as an admin. --Jojit fb 08:42, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I am thinking of adding the great repository of Philippine banking articles, but my Tagalog is not particularly stellar to greatly contribute. As what Jondel said before (see Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines#Picture de-crowding), we are too oriented with English. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 10:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually that is another reason why the Tagalog wikipedia should probably be there is to help us grow and develop our skills, not only for filipinos but for example, non-filipinos who want to learn the langauge. There are Japanese and Americans(missionaries,university linguist specialists, etc), I've met who are good in Tagalog and even Ilokano. They can converse but its very interesting the way they speak. Since there is an English wiki, the Tagalog wiki acts like convenient, online Rossetta stone.I've met a student from Germany and she said Tagalog (as well as Thai, Laos, Burmese, etc) are some of the languages taught there. --Jondel 00:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

*patriotic music in the background* Future generations will remember us and tell great stories our struggle. Our legacy is that a few proud and dedicated wikipedians strove againts all odds to leave a memory in the language of our fatherland. *fade away in the background amidst roaring cheers *............. :D --Jondel 01:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Is it because of this that I decided to be active again in the Tagalog Wikipedia (although it dates back before the commentary)? For that matter, I always use the Tagalog Wikipedia to enrich my vocabulary, whenever I read or contribute (although I have to use the dictionary now and then, that's why I wish the Tagalog Wiktionary is active again). It can really help improve one's language skills, but it takes a lot of luck and determination to do it. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 01:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way, the irony of this is that the person who started this debate on the usefulness of the Tagalog Wikipedia (Howard the Duck) joined the Tagalog Wikipedia on June 7 as the direct Tagalog translation of his username. Oh well. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 01:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

LOL. Well every Wiki needs some help :p --Howard the Duck 06:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I'm a non-Filipino who is learning Tagalog, and, just FYI, I find tl.wikipedia.org useful. Thanks. Finding Tagalog reading materials is difficult in Europe. For a long time, the only books I found were those romance novel "pocket books". Recently I found some cookery books. I would also like to learn some Ilonggo, but this is probably impossible due to a complete lack of materials. An Ilonggo/Hiligaynon wikipedia would be helpful. Gronky 08:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

incubator wiki

the wikimedia sandbox for new wikis, the incubator is up, with the approved Pangasinan Wikipedia already in it. i just wonder how to include the other approved projects like the Ilokano, Cebuano and Pangasinan Wiktionaries, as well as the Cebuano Wikibooks. or are they in separate sandboxes? -- Saluyot 14:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I did find the Finnish Wikinews portal there and I think another non-Wikipedia Wikimedia project at the Incubator. Probably the three Philippine Wiktionaries can be added there? --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 21:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

The Chavacano Wikipedia is currently on incubator too! Have a lookie http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/cbk-zam --Weekeejames 04:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Issue of concern

Just a bit of concern: I don't know what happened to the Kinaray-a Wikipedia proposal (must have vanished or something like that) and I'm very concerned about the progress of the Hiligaynon and Chavacano Wikipedias, which either have no native speakers (for Hiligaynon) or only one native speaker (for Chavacano) willing to work on them. Even if they are approved, they would still need native speakers to work on them, or the proposals will go nowhere. Sounds pessimistic, but still. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 22:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe advertising is needed? Like, mention on Yahoo groups targeted to people in Iloilo, Antique & Zamboanga that there are these three Wikipedias just waiting for native speakers to take care of them. Is this not what worked for other successful Wikipedias, like, say Ilokano & Cebuano? --Chris S. 00:46, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Based on the historical edits of the article Zamboanga City and Chavacano and many other related articles, I have observed that there are numerous Chavacano (Zamboangeño) editors who are actually unregistered wikipedians and who, possibly, don't even know about this Tambayan page. I have created the user language category for Chavacano wikipedians. Hopefully through the category, we can point out Chavacano registered wikipedians. When the purpose is good, anything - in time - will flourish. --Weekeejames 04:45, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Gusto kong magkaroon ng Bikol Wikipedia, ispisifikali Central Bikolano. Tulungan nyo ako. --203.87.187.162 05:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikimania 2006

Anyone going?--Nino Gonzales 09:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I would love to go, but I'm too ingrained in my high school life (and everything in it) to go to Wikimania (if I were still in the U.S., it's a different story). I wonder who else here is going (or not)? --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 10:42, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Next time.--Jondel 07:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm in. Any requests? Books? Pictures? Harvard? MIT? The MTA subway? Faneuil Hall? (The last time I saw Feynman he was walking down the sidewalk here.) --Ancheta Wis 06:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Those pictures would be good, specially with Feynman. Also, a picture of yourself with Jimbo Wales would be great!--Jondel 00:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

It will have to be with living people. Not Manoy Feynman, unfortunately. --Ancheta Wis 01:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

No statue at least? I slept at 2am last night and am practically a zombie(with a non functioning gray matter for a brain) today at work.I forgot Feynman is not around anymore. --Jondel 01:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

First Philippine Republic

Hello! I am kind of new here, but since we are all Filipinos, could you please help me expand the First Philippine Republic article. Regards. --Emir214 12:16, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

MRT FAC

ATTENTION: The MRT article is now a featured article candidate! Please leave comments at the FAC page. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 09:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations on another FA. :) --Mithril Cloud 06:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow. I'm very happy for this. I decided to put it up for TFA, so let's see how that works out. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 10:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Excellent... by my count, this is our fourth Philippine-related FA. I hope the result would have been the same even without the Filipino supports though-- there were only two non-Filipino votes. In any case, good work. :) I doubt it can be featured on the front page anytime soon though, so soon after the LRT was featured. :p Coffee 16:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I hoped for that too, but the MRT nomination didn't get as much attention as the LRT. Oh well. Also, my request for the MRT front page feature is for December 16, the opening day of the MRT. Hope that works. --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 21:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I also checked the MRT talk page, and it was suggested that a stable version be made. Any thoughts? --Akira123323 ^{Say what? | Track record} 14:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

History of the Philippines

I'm gonna post this here since it's a relatively major change... The History of the Philippines article is 80KB and it should be split into smaller articles, with the main article trimmed down to about 32KB and only giving the important details. For example, see how History of the United States gives an overview, and how it has eleven subarticles that go into detail about specific periods. For the Philippines, I suggest we split into five subarticles: (1) pre 1521, (2) 1521-1898, (3) 1898-1946, (4) 1946-1986, and (5) 1986-present. For comments, please discuss at Talk:History of the Philippines. :) --Coffee 14:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I've done a lot of work on the article and it's now up for peer review. Please comment at its peer review page. Coffee 14:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Administrator nomination

Please support Christopher Sundita for the role of administratorship.--Jondel 04:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations to Chris on becoming our third (?) Filipino administrator! Enjoy the new buttons. :) Coffee 16:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

and the new car!--Jondel 00:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC) :D

Thanks guys. I think I am the 5th Pinoy Admin - because I am counting you, Jondel, Ancheta Wis, and Gerald Farinas. There are most likely more. --Chris S. 02:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

There is also LBMixpro who is mostly involved with the Iglesia ni Christo articles.--Jondel 02:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Chris, what's that about the eevil Wumpus???--Noypi380 15:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Congrats too :) --Noypi380 16:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. About the evil Wumpus, I don't know. He didn't like my answer judging from his oppose vote. ;-) --Chris S. 18:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Weasel words at Philippines

There is a dispute going on between Amante de la Paz, what looks like an anon sockpuppet, and User:Jtalledo concerning the latter's use of the {{weasel words}} tag at Philippines. I have warned the user(s) (not Jtalledo) twice, but they insist on removing it. I told them to leave it there until Jtalledo comes in and they can work on it. Anyone want to lend a helping hand? I'm not good with Philippine history. And in general, we should probably work on citing sources in the Philippine article. Which hasn't been done since Coffee put it up for peer review. What do you all say? --Chris S. 18:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Placed a comment in Talk:Philippines#Jtalledo_vandalism. --Noypi380 03:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

The Philippines portal

Not sure if this has been brought up yet but I highly believe we should update the Philippines portal. Some of the content there has been on there for some time now and it can really use an update. --Sky Harbor 09:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

P.S.: This is the former User:Akira123323. I changed the name (literally) as an image update.

I've added nomination sections for Selected article and Selected picture at Portal talk:Philippines. --Howard the Duck 04:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyone with nominations? --Howard the Duck 23:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Anyone??? If no one nominated I'll just do the mini-myni-moo... --Howard the Duck

Dale Abenojar

Can anoybody check this? Somebody is trying to push a personal agenda here. --Howard the Duck 04:01, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I've read the article and bias is obvious. The article should say who Dale Abenojar is and not the why(s) and how(s) Dale Abenojar reached the summit of Mt. Everest. This article is a clear violation of Wikipedia's NPOV and should be on the list of articles for deletion, ASAP. --Weekeejames 10:53, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Simply because an article is riddled with POV doesn't mean that it has to be deleted quickly. It can be rewritten to give it a more neutral tone, but in the case of Dale Abenojar's article, it needs a complete rewrite. --Sky Harbor 16:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with rewrites for only when a portion or a fragment of an article violates Wikipedia's NPOV. However, for articles that are written full of POV from top to bottom and "personal agenda" is very obvious, I would still opt for a quick deletion. --Weekeejames 00:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Crispa Redmanizers, Toyota Super Corollas and U-Tex Wranglers

Can somebody help me? A anon won't allow Wiki standards to be imposed and instead uses his own POV standards. He even said vulgar words on my talk page. Please help. --Howard the Duck 05:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Ibablock ko sana siya for personal attacks pero mukhang nagcalmdown siya. OK na ba kayong dalawa? --Chris S. 06:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Ewan ko ba. But he won't allow Wikipedia standards to be applied on those articles. Nagcite na ako ng examples ayaw pa rin. --Howard the Duck 06:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Stick to your guns (and be mindful of 3RR) and show him the policy here at Wikipedia. At sabihin mo sa kaniya, na may Admin na nagmomonitor sa ginagawa ninyo. Sige, good luck. Matutulog na 'ko.;-) --Chris S. 06:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Well it is not really policy but I am just applying guidelines used on other basketball team pages. But he said that since Crispa and Toyota were the greatest then they shouldn't be included. Then I told him I'll leave the articles momentariliy. Perhaps by Sunday. Bahala na... zzzz --Howard the Duck 06:54, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Patayin yang anonymous na yan! † >:| --Jondel 08:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll be doing changes to the article right now. Please keep on watch. --Howard the Duck 09:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

If he still complains to those cleanup edits, ewan ko na lang. :/ --Mithril Cloud 13:53, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Anybody know the team colors of Toyota? Is it yellow and white? I saw it at the reunion game... --Howard the Duck 13:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The anon IP edited it again. Keep an eye for WP:3RR. --Howard the Duck 04:57, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted him for six times already. --Howard the Duck 08:11, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

What an ***. I doubt that he'll stop even after he gets banned. Better be careful for future vandalisms he might do to your other articles. --Mithril Cloud 08:37, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I give up. Kayo na lang ang bahala. --Howard the Duck 14:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Ay, Howard. Ayon sa mga 3RR rules, I have to treat you all equally when dealing with 3RR. You violated it too, kaya block din kita. It goes both ways. Pasensya ka na. :-( --Chris S. 08:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

How about getting those articles semi-protected? --Mithril Cloud 04:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

That can work for these articles, especially because we have some ruthless anoymous vandal at large. :D --Sky Harbor 06:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I suggested that to Chris already. --Howard the Duck 06:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The articles are messed up again. --Howard the Duck 14:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Toyota's safe for now. The guy really won't stop, so page protection is last resort to use. :/ --Mithril Cloud 14:16, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd really want to protect both (badly). Unless there are other measures to detract vandals from vandalizing sports articles (quite odd), there's no other choice. The vandalism hasn't been that bad (in reference to all Philippine-related articles) since Cueshé two months ago. --Sky Harbor 15:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Problem here is not vandalism actually, but rather a very stubborn anon that won't submit to the standards. ~_~ --Mithril Cloud 15:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Very well, we have an unmannered anonymous user. Sometimes, when something can't be fed, you have to force it down (lol). --Sky Harbor 16:09, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Guess what, he (probably) registered under the name of AyingTorrs. --Howard the Duck 12:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

That's him alright, no doubt about that. Amazing, now even semi-protection didn't work. We need permanent protection. >:) --Mithril Cloud 12:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

No way. That means we can't edit it too. Can anyone help in reverting. Perhaps by flashing WP:OWN to him he'll (pun not intended) stop. --Howard the Duck 12:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Looks like he stopped claiming ownership for now. Although he is still forcing his own article formatting. --Mithril Cloud 13:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

He did revert the MOS applied section headers again. This is really absurd, Although he can say that we'd revert how the notable players is displayed, reverting MOS-applied articles is just plain absurd. Also, add the U-Tex Wranglers article to the list.

Well then, what do you think is the appropriate action for that? Although articles can have flexible formatting, there should be consensus before new formatting is applied. It just confuses readers if you impose something without consensus, especially with regards to formatting. --Sky Harbor 14:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Formatting should really be based on consensus, because after all, its just formatting. MOS is a guideline, and we must follow it. Writing should just be about content - style and format count to. With that said, several other editors changed it back to MOS-applied headers. --Howard the Duck 14:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

That's understood, but also, the MoS is supposed to be flexible, right? Of course it has to be followed, but then it gives considerable leeway to how an article should be written. The MoS doesn't need to followed word for word. --Sky Harbor 14:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The contention was the capitalization of section headers. First it like this: ==Team Roster(1975-83)==, then I made it ==Team roster (1975-83)==, then he reverted it back, then another editor switched to my version, which presently the current version (also, he refuses to add a space between "Roster and "(" so that it looks like ==Team Roster(1975-83)==. I really don't know what's wrong with the smaller letters, and I've flashed him the WP:MOS link, then he said we shouldn't follow it all the time, but such basic things such as capitalization of section headers, once MOS has been applied, it's silly to revert them to their capitalized form. --Howard the Duck 14:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Well then his contention can be considered silly in the first place. Although the MoS gives leeway, some things have to be followed because it's considered a very simple rule of how to write any piece of prose (within or outside Wikipedia), like proper capitalization and spaces before parentheses. --Sky Harbor 21:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Notices that the "bold-color" craze has started. --Sky Harbor 06:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Boo hahaha --Howard the Duck 06:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

XD --Mithril Cloud 07:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

But I started it first! (lol) Anyway, I'm looking for bureaucrats of the Tagalog Wikipedia to get a name change (of course to my current name here in the English Wikipedia), so that I can have a universal name (well, except the Spanish Wikipedia and Commons). --Sky Harbor 14:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm a bureaucrat for tl:. -- bluemask ^(talk) 12:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Yay! For the sake of universality (and the upcoming single login), may I get my username changed to my username here on the English Wikipedia (Sky Harbor)? --Sky Harbor 14:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Your wish is my command. see tl:User:Sky Harbor. :D --bluemask ^(talk) 05:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Now I can exercise universality (well, except the Spanish Wikipedia and Commons)! --Sky Harbor 13:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The bold doesn't show up when its small lol --Howard the Duck 04:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Ayos ang kulay mo pareng Howard! Reminds of People power, symbolo ni Ninoy at chaka kulay ng NGIPIN KO! LOL OMG!--Jondel 01:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL, for the record, orange yan, ewan ko lang kung bakit ganyan ang kulay. --Howard the Duck 04:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it's because of the light? --Sky Harbor 14:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

On IE it looks darker methinks.

Category:Filipino people by ethnic or national origin

The categories say "This category contains articles about Philippine citizens of full or partial <country> ethnicity."

How about changing it to "This category contains articles about people with Filipino and <country> ethnicity."? --Howard the Duck 06:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Tagalog Wiktionary

Just felt interested to make the project active again...it may not be as good as the UP Diksyonaryong Filipino, but it's well worth to try (and contribute to) an actual free (as in libre free) dictionary. Of course, I'm drumming up support and looking for contributors. --Sky Harbor 01:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

There is a wiki Filipino dictionary. I'll try to devote time to this.--Jondel 03:56, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I also found the Tagalog Wikibooks. How about that one as well? --Sky Harbor 12:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Help

I just have an inquiry on photographers in our community. I hav planned some areas to be photographed and i must know in order to coordinate our actions. Thanks. --Justox dizaola 04:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC) ^_^

Notice Board / Discussion Board

It seems better to use the project page of our Notice Board for announcements, lists, to do's, etc. and its discussion page for discussion, like the notice boards for Northern Ireland and France and many other RWNB's. What do you think? --Nino Gonzales 14:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. --Howard the Duck 14:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. That makes sense. Some people opposed me in my RfA because of low Wikipedia_Talk - they took this as a sign of isolating myself. Which isn't true because I discuss things on Tambayan which is a project page. Had our discussions taken place on the talk page, I'd've probably gotten more votes. But that doesn't matter now since my RfA passed.

Anyway, when we do move it, I think we should use the MOVE function. I can delete the current talk page by archiving it in a subpage. --Chris S. 22:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

How does July 31 (a week from yesterday) sound for the date of the move, if there is no opposition?

Perhaps someone could also propose a redisign of the notice board. I think it is about time it gets an update... Maybe it could be the first Featured Notice Board in Wikipedia... hehe --Nino Gonzales 01:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The move's fine with me, although how it will be redesigned is the question. I suggested before that we do something like the Singapore Wikipedians' notice board, but I got no responses. --Sky Harbor 01:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm fine with moving the discussion to the talk page. And I've been thinking of redesigning that notice board for a while... Maybe with the discussion part out of the way we can have more sections like lists of our featured content. :) Coffee 03:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

OK folks, I just went ahead and moved everything around. I really didn't see any reason to wait, so I hope no one minds. :-D So yeah, all discussions should be made on this talk page. I invite either the TheCoffee or anyone to redesign the pages, because I am not good in the design department. --Chris S. 04:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm doing a draft at User:Howard the Duck/Pinoy. --Howard the Duck 05:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I'm also working on a draft, based on the Community Portal: User:TheCoffee/temp. Coffee 08:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Can you add the DYKs (its on the singaporean board too)? Also the different wikiprojects and stub sorting, yours is more aesthetically appealing. --Howard the Duck 08:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've added the stub types and WikiProjects and other stuff, and moved it to Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/Draft. I'm not sure if DYKs belong on the page, since it's just a main page feature to highlight good new articles. But the right half of the green section is currently unoccupied and I guess the DYKs could go there if there are no better ideas. If anyone has any ideas on improving, feel free to make suggestions or edit the page yourself... ^_^ Coffee 18:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

You forgot to include this template: {{RWNBs}} ;) --Howard the Duck 02:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah but that template is so big and wouldn't fit anywhere. :/ I was hoping we could get by with the category and by linking to Wikipedia:Regional notice boards. Some pages like the Australian Wikipedians' notice board didn't bother putting the {{RWNB}}. :p Coffee 03:56, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Their TOC, though, sure is cute hehehe. Can you do that too? --Howard the Duck 07:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Their TOC is just for the discussion section, so I could apply it on this page. *poof* Done! Coffee 14:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

There don't seem to be any major objections, so I went ahead and implemented the redesign. Coffee 16:31, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Great job! I love it! Question, should we have the Philippine flag on there? --Chris S. 03:48, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Another: Can the PRs and FACs be moved to the notice board and add articles mentioned on the Main Page's DYK on the featured content section? --Howard the Duck 08:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd be alright with that. Coffee 11:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Tagalog Wikibooks

Announcing the arrival of the Tagalog Wikibooks! It was made, but no worked on it until today. Of course, it still needs contributors and meaningful content. That's why I'm drumming up support and looking for contributors (again). --Sky Harbor 07:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Magsaysay Trivia

In the novel Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein,p218, Magsaysay is lauded and said that he would be the 'chief of psychological warfare if he were alive today'. Ang galing talaga ng mga Pinoy! --Jondel 00:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't know that the protagonist of Starship Troopers is a Filipino. O_O --Mithril Cloud 09:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

See Juan Rico. He also mentions, in the novel, the Tagalog language.--Jondel 13:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, Juan Rico of Starship Troopers is a Filipino. --Glenncando 17:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

List of Magsaysay awardees

Hi folks, User:Aksi great left the following message on my talk page. Perhaps you guys could help him out.

List of Magsaysay awardees. Hello. I have been populating the above mentioned list since a few days and the list is now complete. I searched around for some wikipedians from Philippines and came to your page. I don't have much knowledge about Philippines or names used in that region. Could you have a look at all the names and check their spellings? There may be some people who already have articles on wikipedia but they still show as red links due to spelling mistakes that I may have made. Thanks. If you don't have much time, I will ask someone else. - Aksi_great (talk) 17:31, 26 July 2006

Thanks, --Chris S. 00:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Did you know? section on the Main Page

España Boulevard

Is featured in the Main Page's Did You Know section for the next six hours. --Howard the Duck 13:21, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I just noticed! Congrats! --Sky Harbor 15:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The Varsitarian

Another one. Early morning. Too bad I wasn't able to see it (lol). --Howard the Duck 23:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

St. La Salle Hall

Just saw it this morning. --Mithril Cloud 02:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Why is it always at the bottom? --Howard the Duck 03:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Dunno, maybe we should nominate an article together with a picture next time so it'll appear on top. --Mithril Cloud 06:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Check out the other 2, they're either last or second to the last hehehe... --Howard the Duck 08:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Jeremiah James Harty

He became Manila Archbishop so it counts as Philippine-related, right? And this was placed on top this time. :) -- Mithril Cloud 07:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

A DYK every 3 days, eh? hehehe --Howard the Duck 08:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Judicial and Bar Council

Another one. --Howard the Duck 08:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

De La Salle University Pops Orchestra

Another one. Self-nominated by SunKing --Mithril Cloud 07:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Rafael Buenaventura

Just saw this one earlier. --Sky Harbor 13:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

User list

I decided to check out some of the other RWNBs (the Taiwanese, Indonesian, Swedish, Singaporean, HK, Indian, French and Japanese boards to be exact) and it seems that they all have in common one thing: they have a user list on their notice board page. Just asking if we can do that here. --Sky Harbor 11:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, lets add that too. Also, how about a link to Portal:Philippines? --Howard the Duck 15:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

That can work too. --Sky Harbor 15:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Added it already. --Howard the Duck 11:48, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This is a Wikipedia project after all, and other projects have similar lists. --Chris S. 06:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

We'll need like a mini-census or an evaluation or something like that to see whether users are active or inactive. That way, we have an accurate listing. --Sky Harbor 07:14, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Just create the section and let the users sign. Those who didn't sign in the first place are the "inactives." --Howard the Duck 07:20, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem with that is that there could be cases of misclassification. There are some Filipino Wikipedians who are active but only seldomly leave messages in the tambayan. In any case, however, I will make the fifth tambayan box, but I'll need a suitable color for the heading. --Sky Harbor 08:00, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, it is the tambayan page, so those who are active at the tambayan should be added there, right? There always Category:Filipino Wikipedians, we can mention it as a complete list. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Howard the Duck (talk • contribs) 16:10, 29 July 2006.

Then again, how about Filipino Wikipedians who don't frequently visit the Tambayan, or who are active on the other Philippine Wikipedias? Anyway, I made the list. --Sky Harbor 08:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

But the page is the Tambayan page. If it was a "Wikipedians who contributed to Philippine-related articles" page then evetybody can be included. Those who are active at the Tambayan may post their names. Even those who aren't may post their names. Perhaps some might not want to be associated with the Tambayan. --Howard the Duck 08:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

For example on how Wikiproject Cricket handled this, take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket/Participants. --Howard the Duck 11:50, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I took another look at more boards, and it seems that only some boards (primarily the Indian and Pakistani boards) deliniate active users from inactive users. For our sake, I removed the active and inactive descriptions, so now, we only have one list of users, regardless if they are active or inactive, if they visit here or not, what not. --Sky Harbor 15:47, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I liked the idea from the cricket project where they show who focuses on what article. Could we integrate that into the current list that just got started? --Chris S. 06:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

What if, instead of the horizontal listing we have now, we use bullet points like we used to do on this old list of Filipino Wikipedians. Then I guess we could have some informal comments beside our names. Coffee 11:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. I didn't like the horizontal format much. --Chris S. 03:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me too. Wow I forgot about that old list!I remember when I was small fry. In those days, you had to chip your articles out of rock, things were litterally written in stone. Dinasours ruled the earth and...--Jondel 10:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I like the current setup. Looks colorful. --Howard the Duck 10:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I like it myself, since other than being colorful, it also (quite coincidentally) asks users to "adopt" a color for their signature. However, should I or should I not revert edits which involved two things: renaming the user roster (now the "Tambay roster") and removing the inside heading. Of course, how will we be able to put our names in, since there's no edit link? --Sky Harbor 14:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

"Tambayan Philippines roster" looks good. But add a section header so newbies can sign in their name without much effort. --Howard the Duck 10:12, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Done already, although I'm very much surprised by the good-faithed efforts to add color to the list. I think we are the only RWNB with multicolor user listings (lol). --Sky Harbor 13:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, and Chris S's very colorful username reminds me of this :p. --Howard the Duck 09:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Help with translations

I'm currently working on a script intended to create short articles on political parties on a variety of wikipedias simultaneously. However, in order for the technique to work I need help with translations to various languages. If you know any of the languages listed at User:Soman/Lang-Help , then please help by filling in the blanks. For example I need help with Tagalog. Thanks, --Soman 12:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Tambay Redirect change

In consideration of the move of the Tambayan I will be moving the shortcut WP:TAMBAY to redirect to Wikipedia_talk:Tambayan_Philippines.--Jondel 01:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

That can work. We have one redirect for the main page and one for discussions. --Sky Harbor 14:38, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it should stay as-is, so they can see what we're about first, and if an editor is so inclined to comment, there is a link to us. But whatever you guys choose, is fine with me. :-D --Chris S. 06:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, shortcuts to talk pages are usually in the form WT:PINOY and WT:TAMBAY. What if we have those link to this talk page, and WP:PINOY and WP:TAMBAY link to the project page?

That looks good!Agreed. --Jondel 10:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks TheCoffee, for creating the redirects.--Jondel 13:29, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

A nice map factoid

While watching The World Tonight on ANC, they were running a report on political killings in the Philippines. Quite amusingly, I saw the map of Lubuagan in Kalinga, which looked like the exact map used in the article of the same name. Once again, this is the third Philippine map (the first being Seav's map of Cavite and the second being Coffee's map of Saint Bernard, Southern Leyte) taken from Wikipedia to be used in Philippine media, but, as always, WITHOUT credit. --Sky Harbor 14:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, we were watching the exact same thing! :) I turned to the TV and saw that map and I stared wide-eyed for a few seconds, then reached for my camera but the map was gone before I could take a picture. I'm more flattered than angry, though a credit would have been better.. :p Coffee 14:52, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

So ABS-CBN are copyright violators? I knew it! --Howard the Duck 05:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

NO credit?! From the license, You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium, either commercially or noncommercially, provided that this License, the copyright notices, and the license notice saying this License applies to the Document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add no other conditions whatsoever to those of this License. Raid the station!......with spam. :) --Noypi380 05:36, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

If somebody got a screenshot we can add it in the ABS-CBN article. (evil laugh) --Howard the Duck 06:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I think this is the fourth map. I was watching Bandila a few weeks ago when they segued into the weather report. While they were mentioning that "banayad ang mga alon sa look ng Maynila" I saw for a split-second, my Manila map. I wasn't quite sure if what I saw was real. When I get the chance, I try to catch the weather report to see if I can see it again. Anyway, I suggest that we should write ABS-CBN a letter. They're violating copyright; and to think they're admonishing music pirates through Star Records. --seav 11:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

We gotta have proof first. I'll be watching them by the weekend. Piracy is bad... --Howard the Duck 11:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Since the GFDL concept (or any copyleft concept) hasn't really sunken into the Filipino mentality just yet with regards to copyright, we can, if that is wanted. I mean, look how much the Philippine Daily Inquirer defends the copyright of its articles, yet they use images from another source without due credit (in reference to Saint Bernard). Even one of the most reputable Philippine media brands now violates copyright in the same manner. Oh well. But of course, how can we prove they did, if we don't even have screenshots? --Sky Harbor 12:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Why not create a page (like Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/In the press) then we'd add them there? I remember the Saint Bernard one (I was a noob then), and with matching evidence we can link it at the Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines page. --Howard the Duck 12:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. Started. Philippine Daily Inquirer and ABS-CBN are both busted, and we can probably find more. The papers are easy to prove, just grab a copy. The networks can be proven also, by our own first hand memories as witnesses. :) They should assume good faith for we are just asking for due credit, the same way CNN credits Google Maps (they put a bold label on top). We just have to tell them all formally and hopefully they will change their practices. If not, let's go fishin. :) --Noypi380 14:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Where's the cebu Daily News link? I was looking for it but it vanished... --Howard the Duck 08:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

This one? Coffee 08:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Can we upload that to Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/In the press? --Noypi380 12:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Fair use images aren't allowed at the Wikipedia namespace. However, we can link it at the page. --Howard the Duck 05:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Well. It appears to be common practice for local news programs to use illustrations without credit. I have a strong hunch that the map of Israel and Lebanon they're using recently was not developed in house and was taken from the Web. --seav

Maybe local news entities need to grow up. In Japan and I think the US, copyrights are sensitive issues. They shouldn't copy with out giving due credit, specially if they intend to be part of the global community. --Jondel 13:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. :) --Noypi380 14:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It's quite sensitive in the US, I think. I tried to use older national anthem musical scores for my old school's proposed school song (which I wrote the lyrics to), but the principal objected to using them, for fear of copyright infringement. However, I was able to find a PD score of The Internationale off the Internet, so I used that instead. I do agree though that Philippine media entities need to grow up, and especially they need to try to lessen their dependence on the Internet, especially when it comes to using material that's not their own. --Sky Harbor 12:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The Center for Media Freedom and Responsibility has used the regions and provinces map in their presentation. See this PCIJ blog entry. But I guess this qualifies as fair use, since its not commercial and its for educational purposes. --seav 02:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem with the Philippine copyright law is that its almost like vapor. Anyway, i believe we must inform ABSCBN about this and at least credit you or the wiki for the media. Justox dizaola 09:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

SO how to write the letter? Do you guys wanna do it in true wikipedia style, by hosting it here in tambayan, and have it written as a community? --Noypi380 09:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Seems to work fine with me. I'll try starting a draft. The question now is to who should we address it? --Sky Harbor 12:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Sky Harbor started it in Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/In the press :0 --Noypi380 03:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Quite oddly I didn't start it yet. However, we can't adress the letter to INQ7 Interactive, since it is a joint venture of both the PDI and GMA Network. The letter needs to be addressed to the Philippine Daily Inquirer itself. --Sky Harbor 10:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

For me, we should address it to Cebu Daily News. --Howard the Duck 10:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The Cebu Daily News is an affiliate of and is printed by the Philippine Daily Inquirer. --Sky Harbor 10:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Then lets address directly to Cebu Daily News. When you complain at Pizza Hut, you don't go to the nearest Pepsi plant, right? --Howard the Duck 11:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

How about this: not the Cebu Daily News, but the Inquirer affiliate that owns it: Inquirer Publications, Inc. (publisher of the Bandera and Tumbok tabloids)? --Sky Harbor 11:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm ok with that. (P.S.: Pizza Hut was formerly owned by Pepsi, but is now owned by the guys who own KFC hehehe) --Howard the Duck 11:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks! --Noypi380 12:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I have started my own letters here at User:Sky Harbor/Letters to the press. This is presuming that this community sends the letters through the postal system. --Sky Harbor 10:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

History section in the Philippines article

Fixed the history section of Philippines. Pls check it out, and make comments. I wanted to end the constant edits for good so that we can make it a feature article already. :) --Noypi380 14:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Keep up the good work!--Jondel 13:44, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, and sina Howard fixed it up too. :) --Noypi380 12:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

List of Vice Presidents of the Philippines

Join the polishing up at User:Howard the Duck/Pinoy. --Howard the Duck 08:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Nice. Vice presidential portraits na lang kulang. :) --Noypi380 12:34, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

They're at: http://www.freewebtown.com/ovp/vicepres.html --Howard the Duck 23:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I added them already. We seem have to replace Guingona's and De Castro's pics.

P.S. To the sysops: Please move all of the Presidents and Vice President article names back to their original non-diacretic names. This is really absurd. --Howard the Duck 23:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Done! Coffee 04:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Yehey. Also, see the corresponding discussion whether to include Mariano Trias (great grandfather of Jasmine Trias) as a VP at Talk:Vice President of the Philippines. --Howard the Duck 09:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Congressional districts of the Philippines articles.

Scorpion prinz is creating a bunch of articles for the congressional districts of the Philippines (e.g., Congressional Districts of Cebu). It would be nice if we could give our comments on how best to organize these sets of articles. =) --seav 16:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that's a lot of nice thorough work he's doing there. Even articles for districts that no longer exist. Looks good to me... Coffee 09:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

New Manual of Style

Hi everyone. I created a new Wikipedia proposal called Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Philippine-related articles) in light of the non-standard methods that I have seen among Philippine-related articles. One of which is the use of diacritics (Howard the Duck knows what I'm talking about) in people's names especially when they don't use them any more. Another non-standard thing I have notice is the naming of Philippine provinces. Some had the word Province (with capital P, no less!) in the name when it wasn't necessary. So this new Philippine MoS seeks to reconcile all of this.

In any case, your input is needed so we can create consensus and make it into an official style guide. Please look over and discuss what I have so far as well as discussing new proposals that you believe should be included. All of us have work on diverse Philippine-related articles and I'm sure there's some of you who have a standardization issue that's been bothering you. :-) To get ideas, a list of other region or language-specific MoS's are at the bottom of WP:MOS. Thanks, everyone! --Chris S. 19:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Finally! --Howard the Duck 01:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

How about Philippines and The Philippines? Can the latter still be used on articles or is it wrong to use it? --Mithril Cloud 01:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

The Philippines is of course the correct one, since, after all we are not called Thefilipinos. :-D I think that's covered in the general MOS but I don't see it. But take a look at the list of countries that use the definite article but whose namespace titles don't include it: the Ukraine, the Bahamas, the People's Republic of China, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and finally, the United States. --Chris S. 03:40, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Just asking. There are still some users who use The Philippines, at least if there's a MOS for that it'll be ok to correct them. --Mithril Cloud 03:45, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how much the "the" will set a precedent; I mean, we have "The Sudan" and "The Ukraine" in somewhat common usage. --Sky Harbor 14:01, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

The Sudan and The Ukraine was already dropped though. Well, the Philippines is correct, but when it is used where "the" isn't needed like "Manila, The Philippines", i think it doesn't look/sound correct, right? --Mithril Cloud 06:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Are we talking about in general usage or in Namespace titles? Because I was talking about Namespace titles. --Chris S. 03:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Namespace titles. --Mithril Cloud 06:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Can we link this to the Tambay page? --Howard the Duck 12:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Sure, go ahead. I still need people to comment on it, so we can turn it into an actual guideline with consensus. --Chris S. 14:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Just read the MoS and I agree with everything written in it so far. =) (I'd love to point out that page to Mr. Tobias Conradi who has been insisting on the capitalized "P" in "Leyte Province", among others.) --seav 22:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I like the idea of having a style-guide for Philippine-related articles. About the "municipalities" section though... the current convention is to have municipalities in the form [[Municipalityname, Province]] (e.g. Valencia, Negros Oriental) and cities generally in the form [[Cityname City]] (e.g. Dumaguete City). Coffee 11:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I added a "city" section there. But I made it Cityname, City for independent cities only. Perhaps we need to work it out there. --Howard the Duck 15:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Goodness, Seav. I just noticed what Tobias Conradi did habang natutulog ako. Tama ka pala. Kailangan ko nang ayusin. hehe. --Chris S. 17:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Ati-Atihan Festival

Does anyone know the exact date of the Ati-Atihan festival in Kalibo in 2007? I am thinking of visiting the festival, but can't seem to find the dates. The official website is not updated yet. I have noticed, by the way, that two articles describe the same festival here on Wikipedia. (Ati-Atihan Festival and Ati-Atihan) Maybe they should be merged? Magalhães 07:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's always at the feast of Santo Nino. However i'd suggest now to merge those two. Ati-Atihan is the general term for people running around greased with charcoal, while the Festival refers specifically to the one held at Kalibo. --Howard the Duck 08:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

But when exactly is the feast of Santo Nino? Magalhães 09:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

The Sunday after Epiphany. --Howard the Duck 10:01, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Internationally, it's "the Philippines" when referring to the country.Gareon 05:00, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

CfD on Filipino people by ethnic or national origin

I've put this category and its 18 subcategories up for deletion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_August_7#Filipino people by ethnic or national origin. Your input appreciated. --Chris S. 04:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Pictures of the Philippine Presidents

hi guys... I would like to propose to change the pictures of the Philippine Presidents... because currently all articles have the portrait pictures which is unsuitable for article biographies... most biographic article for the Filipino Presidents are generally good but other Wikipedians would not rate those articles as GOOD ARTICLES because of its pictures ... peads 03:25, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I would be alright with changing the main pictures on the articles to something other than the Malacañang portraits. I originally uploaded those pics long ago when most president articles had no pictures... but now that I think of it, it really would be better if we had actual photographs of the presidents, when available. Coffee 05:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree but the new pics must be at public domain. --Howard the Duck 11:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

It depends on the situation. Not all presidential photos are PD; we are sure that the state portraits are PD under Philippine copyright law. However, if there are actual PD self-photos, then those are fine. --Sky Harbor 14:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Op-ed complaint about Bun mui

Bun mui was the subject of an August 2006 op-ed in a Filipino newspaper. The writer thinks the article is wrong and says "THE COUNTRY should complain to the global information resource Wikipedia." I'm not quite clear what his problem is, but maybe more knowledgeable editors can address it before we indeed have an entire country complaining. Sandstein 06:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

The dispute is about the touchy subject of domestic helpers (maids) in Hong Kong. Seeing from history page (first page, at least), nobody from the Tambayan took part in writing the article, so I'm assuming much of the content was writen by Hong Kongers. --Howard the Duck 08:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Another nice map factoid

It seems that ABS-CBN is very fond of using Wikipedia maps these days. I saw this time the map of Nueva Valencia, Guimaras, made by TheCoffee, on TV Patrol. And once again, this is WITHOUT credit. --Sky Harbor 11:38, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Again. This is too much, we have to send the letter soon. --Noypi380 14:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Aargh, I wasn't able to see it. Anyone with screencaps? What program? --Howard the Duck 15:25, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't have my camera on me. It was when Karen Davila was talking about this article on TV Patrol World which is available online: Coast Guard sends ships to clean Guimaras oil spill. I have my letters available, but how are we going to send it to them? --Sky Harbor 15:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

It's said there that its "newsfeedback@abs-cbn.com", but we need a more dedicated address. --Howard the Duck 15:45, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

My letters are designed to go through the postal system, but if we do course it through e-mail, we need something more reliable. --Sky Harbor 22:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it's better if it's sent through the postal system. --Mithril Cloud 01:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

On a related note, looks like ABS-CBN loves to use Wikipedia as their reference. I just saw a screenshot of the Fenfluramine article on TV Patrol. --Mithril Cloud 11:39, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

They might not realize it, but content on Wikipedia is Copyrighted. --Howard the Duck 12:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, placed reuser's guide in Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/In the press --Noypi380 12:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Why don't we transfer letters to the press on the discussion page of "In the press", then we'll present the evidences/testimonies on the project page? --Howard the Duck 13:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

That can work. --Sky Harbor 13:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I had the naughty idea of including "second license" to my GFDL'd images such that if you use the images without adhering to the GFDL license, then the second license applies, which essentially says that you cannot sue me if I use your own copyrighted works. (And now I can download Star Records's music legally! Hehehe.) --seav 15:38, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

slow evil laughHahahaha!--Noypi380 01:00, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Very well, I'll start redesiging the In the press page. Question is, what letters are we going to send? --Sky Harbor 09:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Family Village

I'm suspecting this is a prank or a hoax. Anybody can confirm? --Howard the Duck 13:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

It looks so absurd that its almost funny.23prootie 16:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Can we verify if the person who made this is from Bacoor or lives in this "village"? It doesn't even make any sense. There's nothing about it in the Bacoor city website; things like these are usually notable if they're there, I think. --Sky Harbor 22:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

What should we do then? Prod? AFD? --Howard the Duck 09:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

How about this: PROD it first, then ask whoever made the article. If some time passes without a response, then place it on AfD. --Sky Harbor 11:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, if nobody removed the PROD within five days, it'll be deleted. Anyway, I'm adding a prod now. Anybody can add {{prod2}} for extra support. --Howard the Duck 13:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

You might also want to check this out: Danielle haghighy. It is edited by the guy who made many edits for family village...--Nino Gonzales 10:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I prodded it already. --Howard the Duck 04:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Category:Articles with limited geographic scope