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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Long-tailed Ground Roller/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 10:01, 19 May 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Long-tailed Ground Roller edit

Long-tailed Ground Roller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:47, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am re-nominating the Long-tailed Ground Roller article because I believe it is a comprehensive overview of the species that is both well-written and well-illustrated, and that it meets the criteria. The last FAC, which took place a year ago, ended without the article’s promotion because I was forced to step away from Wikipedia for schoolwork and did not resolve the later commentary. I apologize for that, and prior to re-nominating resolved (I think) all outstanding comments from the first FAC. I've also notified every editor who commented on the first FAC to apologize and update them. I've also checked to ensure that no new research has been published and updated the dates. The Long-tailed Ground Roller is an elusive bird that is found only in a small area of Madagascar's spiny forest. It digs nesting burrows in the sand and is so unobtrusive that the locals used to believe that the species hibernated. Thank you for reviewing the article. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:47, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for informing me of this new FAC. Actually my first comment from the previous FAC hasn't been resolved. From "Taxonomy": "In 1971, Joel Cracraft proposed a separate family for the ground rollers based on dramatic differences in behavior, plumage, and post-cranial anatomy between the groups." Is the word "dramatic" really required? Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:31, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that, I meant to write you a note. I think dramatic is required as dramatic differences would be required to justify a new family. If the differences weren't dramatic, it would remain a subfamily or just another collection of genera. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:41, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there isn't any drama involved. How about "notable" or "significant" instead? Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:25, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Significant works just as well. Switched. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 21:31, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:42, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My third comment is also unresolved. In "Description", paragraph 2, are the breeding season calls made only by the males? Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:35, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I put in which genders gave what calls as the source identifies them. Some are made by males only, some are made by both genders, and some are unknown. Thanks. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:41, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
From "Description", paragraph 1: "The tail has 15 to 20 dark brown bars marking it, while the outer retrices are sky blue." Should this be "rectrices"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:56, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good catch. Fixed. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 16:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
From "Description", paragraph 1: "Juveniles of both sexes are duller in plumage than the adult female." Why is the female specifically called out? There was no indication that females have different plumage brightness than males. Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:52, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The juveniles resemble the female. I clarified the sentence. Thanks. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 16:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
From "Description", paragraph 2: "The use of wing-snapping to produce a sound is a rare phenomenon in birds, and only one other family in the order Coraciiformes, the todies, is known to do it." It is unclear if families in other orders use wing-snapping. Axl ¤ [Talk] 20:02, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Others orders have wingsnappers. Hopefully clarified the sentence. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 20:27, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. That wasn't the answer that I expected. The latter part of the new statement is informative only if the reader knows how many families are in Coraciiformes. I don't think that this is helpful. Perhaps delete that part and just say that wing-snapping is rare? Axl ¤ [Talk] 20:59, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is interesting to those that do know the order, and it is wikilinked in the same sentence if a reader wants to broaden their reading. I'm going to leave it in. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 23:32, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
From "Ecology and behavior": "The Long-tailed Ground Roller is a solitary species outside the breeding season." I don't think that "solitary species" is the right phrase. I presume that this means that individuals of the species are solitary. Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:16, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Tweaked. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 23:32, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I would like to see clearer information about which sexes use which calls, and I don't think that the information about wing-snapping in Coraciiformes is helpful. However I am happy to ascribe this to simple editorial disagreement. Otherwise, this is an excellent article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:48, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Jim I supported this last time out, so not much to add this time around Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:38, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • I made these minor edits, please check
  • ground roller in lead second line, — not obvious that this is the same as the family linked above, I'd go for species of bird in the groundroller family Brachypteraciidae
  • The breeding season coincides with the rainy season, which lasts from October to January. During the breeding season — over-seasoned
  • the species lays two to four smooth, white eggs, normally two. — the female normally lays two eggs, but sometimes three or four
  • This species — overused
  • A bit of inconsistency with book refs. Jenkins has two short form refs (for adjacent pages, so could be made into one) and is listed as a Cited text. Jobling has two refs to pages that are miles apart, but is given two separate long form refs, not short form + Cited text.
Thank you for the review. I think I've addressed all of your concerns. Your copyedits look good. Thanks. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:51, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to support above Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:08, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 07:04, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Noleander

  • I don't mind reviewing this again, but first, could the nominator go to FAN #1 and review my comments there and insert "done" or "not done" replies to each of my suggestions? After doing that, notify me and I'll resume the review. Go ahead and post the done/not done comments in the archive #1, not here.
  • Wording "The arid spiny forests in which it lives are unprotected ..." - "not protected" seems better to me.
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:09, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wording "The Long-tailed Ground Roller was described by British banker and naturalist Walter Rothschild in 1895 as Uratelornis chimaera; ..." - Worded in an ambigous way ... I read that to mean that WR mistakenly identified it in the wrong genus. Try rewording to something like: British naturalist WR first described the LTGR in 1895, giving it the scientific name Uc; ...". Or "The first scientific description of LTGR was by brit nat WR, who gave it the scientific name Uc in 1895; ..".
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:09, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Footnotes: some end in periods, some dont. Im guessing that the templates are adding the period. In any case, it should be uniform for all citations.
Every ref that doesn't redirect you to a cited text ends in a period, and the cited texts all end in a period. As the book refs are just author date page and link to the cited texts, they are not complete and are not followed by a period. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:04, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Langrand source: uses boldface for book volume name. is that a standard? I don't recall seeing that before.
It is recommended by HBW for those citing it, but I don't think it is standard. Fixed. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:04, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

[Following are Noleander comments from prior nomination which were not resolved at that time]:

  • Footnote #1 in Lead seems forlorn. WP:LEAD says footnotes are optional in lead ... the cite is already in the article body, I presume? Recommend delete footnote from lead.
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Footnotes #19 and #22 have links to Ref section, but links are broken.
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tense: "The local inhabitants of Madagascar believed, as this bird is remarkably silent and difficult to see during the non-breeding season, that the Long-tailed Ground Roller hibernated in its burrows, although no evidence supports this." - strange shift from past (believed) to present (supports). Do they still believe that?
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Date ambiguity: "At the turn of the twentieth century, .." - I suppose that means circa year 2000, but readers shouln't have to guess if it means 1900. Be more specific.
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wording: "Only one zoo, Germany's Weltvogelpark Walsrode, is known to keep ..." - "is known to" doesnt seem right for that phrase. Just say "... keeps". Any fact stated in the article "is known to" the best of the editor's ability. If you suspect other zoos may have the bird, then the article should not say "only one zoo ..."; instead write "Germany'x W W keeps ...".
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Italics vs. quotes for sounds: "of chuckling tu-tuc" is italics, but " Low "gu" notes" and other are in quotes. If there is an official bird reason for that distinction, fine, otherwise choose one or the other.
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
?? I still see tu-toc in italics in one place and quotes in another. --Noleander (talk) 12:27, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that, I missed them in Reproduction. Good catch, and changed to italics. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:09, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see an explanation of the name "ground roller", is it in the article? I expect to see "named ground roller because they roll on the ground ..." or something like that. If the explanation is in the ground roller article, it should be duplicated in this article for one-stop-shopping.
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • DNA-based relatives: "This position is supported by DNA evidence.[5] It has been suggested, but not widely accepted, that ground rollers are closely related to the puffbirds and jacamars." - I thought that DNA information provided pretty concrete info about how closely species were related, I'm surprised to see "it has been suggested ..".
DNA research can be extremely complex, and many studies conflict with each other, and some have proposed radical revisions that weren't supported by later analysis. This proposal is still in the hypothesis/not widely accepted process. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This bird has been featured on several of Madagascar's stamps." - That seems rather telling, Does that mean it is considered a very prominent bird in Madagascar? Perhaps symbolic in some way? If so, the article should mention how the bird is well-recognized or admired etc within the country, and why.
I think it is featured because it is rare, endemic, and striking in appearance rather than cultural significance. None of my sources suggested any more cultural significance than what is in the article. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

End Noleander comments --Noleander (talk) 12:27, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to "Support" based on recent improvements. --Noleander (talk) 03:15, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again for taking the time to review. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 03:28, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Yzx

  • Is the taxobox image an adult male or female?
Not sure- I would guess female based on tail length, but would hesitate to ID it for certain based on that. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • occurs in extremely low population densities -- "occurs at"
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • requires shade and a deep layer of leaves -- I assume a layer of leaves on the ground?
Yes. Clarified. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • or by waiting attentively for an opportunity -- this seems awkward/unclear
It stands there attentively and waits for an opportunity to eat something. Do you prefer the tweak?
I've been wracking my brain trying to think of a good way to say this. What about "or by remaining still and watching attentively"? -- Yzx (talk) 02:03, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That works. Switched. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 04:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Its wings are relatively weak, so the ground roller primarily uses its strong legs to run through its habitat -- the construction of this sentence seems odd; suggest "The ground roller primarily runs through its habitat on its strong legs, as its wings are relatively weak."
Switched. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why was it named chimaera?
It was named after the chimera, a mythological hodgepodge critter. The chimera also was a symbol of winter, and "kheima" means "winter season" and implies hibernation. I'm not sure if the describer thought it looked like a hodgepodge of creatures or was reaching even further back, and I think it would cross into OR without someone else claiming one or the other. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Until recently the ground rollers, Cuckoo Roller, and rollers were all placed in a single family, Coraciidae, in which each of the three groups formed a subfamily.[7][8] In 1971, Joel Cracraft proposed a separate family for the ground rollers based on significant differences in behavior, plumage, and post-cranial anatomy between the groups.[9] This position is supported by DNA evidence.[8] It has been suggested, but not widely accepted, that ground rollers are closely related to the puffbirds and jacamars. -- this whole passage is family-level information that detracts from the focus of this article; maybe reconsider whether it's necessary.
Hmmm... I'd agree if it were a species-level article, but it is also the article for Uratelornis. Hmm. I'm in favor of keeping it as it traces the movement of the genus, but if I ever get around to the other ground rollers I will definitely rethink it. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it's not really the movement of the genus per se, since Uratelornis has always been regarded as a ground roller as far as I can tell, the ambiguity is whether the ground rollers as a whole should be classified with these other birds or not. That's what makes this info more relevant to the family than the genus to me. But I don't consider it a dealbreaker. -- Yzx (talk) 02:03, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fair point. I'm leaving it in for the moment, but may remove it if ground roller gets brought up to par. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 04:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The adaptations required for the ancestral Long-tailed Ground Roller to inhabit scrubland led Rothschild to create the monotypic genus Uratelornis for the species in his description. -- this should be placed with the earlier passage that talks about the publication and etymology of the genus.
Good call. Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • highly distinctive from a distance -- the qualifier seems odd. Is it not distinctive up close, too?
It is, but the silhouette is distinctive. Fixed. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • though it may disperse across a broader stretch of habitat outside of the breeding season -- not clear what this means; does it relax its habitat requirements outside the breeding season?
I think it is suggesting short distance movements, that it may venture further from the territory, but insists more research is needed into the reasons. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Then perhaps "range across a larger area" rather than "disperse across a broader stretch of habitat" may be more appropriate? -- Yzx (talk) 02:03, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Went with "disperse across a larger area." Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 04:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • mix of sub-arid thorn-scrub and deciduous woodland -- not clear how this relates to the following sentences: is the "spiny forest" this mix or just the thorn-scrub? Are the baobab trees the "deciduous woodland"?
Tweaked. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If I'm understanding correctly, the spiny forest is the "mix of sub-arid thorn-scrub and deciduous woodland"? If so, then I'd recommend "This species' prime habitat is spiny forest, a mix of..." -- Yzx (talk) 02:03, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 04:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • attentively waiting for prey -- suggest adding "to appear"
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link rainy season
Done. Wet season is a good article too. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • use both their bill and feet -- should be "use their bills and feet"
Oops. Fixed. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the height of the crescendo the bird breaks off its call and flies upwards onto the branch while producing a "ripping and crackling sound" with its wingbeats -- is this the "wing-snapping" mentioned under Description? There it's stated to be territorial, while here it's stated to be courtship.
Seddon guesses that they are courtship, and comes after HBW. Changing. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Similarly, the boo and tu-tuc calls are said to be territorial in Description and courtship in Reproduction.
Same as above, though "boo" depends on usage I think. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • wide chamber with a shallow floor -- not sure what "shallow floor" means here; does it mean it's flat?
Shallow depression. Fixed. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

-- Yzx (talk) 00:50, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for reviewing. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One more comment:

  • Calls are rarely made outside of the breeding season, though multiple territorial calls are made -- shouldn't this be "when multiple courtship calls are made"?

-- Yzx (talk) 02:03, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. I want to thank you again, particularly for taking the time to reconstruct some of the sentences. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 04:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My issues have been addressed. Supporting now. -- Yzx (talk) 15:36, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:39, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments. Looks good, as most of my commentary from the last FAC has been addressed. Here's some fresh nitpicks.Sasata (talk) 07:31, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • All suggestions below satisfactorily addressed; article meets FA criteria. Sasata (talk) 21:04, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "These ground rollers feed primarily on invertebrates, including ants, beetles, butterflies, and worms, which it finds" fix
Good catch. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This bird is classified as Vulnerable" might want to mention who classifies it this way
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "is a reference to the ancient Greek mythological creature" capital A for ancient?
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Long-tailed Ground Roller is currently placed in"
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "while the ear-coverts are brown." why the hyphenation?
Something-coverts are always hyphenated in ornithological literature from my experience. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "thorn-scrub and deciduous woodland which only receives" link thorn scrub; which->that
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "during the breeding season, with the extra burrows being known as speculative burrows." suggest "during the breeding season; the extra burrows are known as speculative burrows." to remove the noun+ing construction
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • do we know what size the eggs are (I would imaging if egg-collecting is a problem for this species, someone has written this information down somewhere)?
I haven't seen that information in any of my sources. I'll try again later today, but I would have put it in if found. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No luck finding it. I'll keep an eye on the literature and put it in if I find it. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 20:27, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link blowgun
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • publisher & publisher location not required for journals
I'll remove if asked, but does it do any harm? Also, why is it part of the template? Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 20:21, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No harm really, it's just superfluous (I don't think their presence in these instances would help a reader locate the cited source). Not sure why they're in the template, but there's quite a few parameters in the citation templates that are rarely used.Sasata (talk) 21:04, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good to know, those are difficult to hunt down. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 21:11, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • should indicate the editor(s) in Langrand 2001
In what way- they are in the Cited Text section. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Just put "eds." after del Hoyo et al. (assuming they're the editors). Sasata (talk) 21:04, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Its a template, so I'm not sure how- that is just how it displays the editors. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 21:11, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's odd, according to the documentation, it should list "eds." I've asked here. Sasata (talk) 21:31, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the review. I'll address the eggs and journals later today if I can. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
All commented on. Thanks again. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 20:27, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your support. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 21:11, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate comment -- did I miss an image review somewhere? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If it counts, last year's FAC had an image review, and the pictures haven't changed since. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 15:16, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Image check -- OK; I've checked through them again, didn't see any irregularities. -- Yzx (talk) 16:44, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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