Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Football

For American football, see WikiProject Deletion sorting/American football

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Football (soccer). It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion

Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:

Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Football|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.

Note that there are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.

Removing a closed AfD discussion

Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.

Other types of discussions

You can also add and remove links to other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Football (soccer).

Further information

For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

This list is also part of the larger list of deletion debates related to Sports.

Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:

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Primary listing for deletion nominations is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football#Nominations for deletion and page moves. Items may be cross-listed here to allow automated archiving. (as of 2007-11-22)

Football edit

Bivesh Gurung edit

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Footballer that does not appear to have played a full professional game. Sources are mostly local papers and match reports. Black Kite (talk) 21:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Arya Igami Tarhani edit

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This footballer does not appear to have played a professional senior game, only junior ones. Black Kite (talk) 21:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - Am I misunderstanding? Appears that Albirex Niigata Singapore FC is a professional club and he joined them for the season that started about a week ago and he just played a match with them according to this... DCsansei (talk) 23:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Damián van der Vaart edit

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This 17-year-old footballer doesn't appear to have even played a full professional game for any club. It seems that most of the news stories about him are due to him being the son of Rafael van der Vaart. Black Kite (talk) 21:39, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Rafael van der Vaart#Personal life, where he is already mentioned extensively, per ATD and CHEAP. This is a youth player in all his clubs. gidonb (talk) 22:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FK Kozara (Sweden) edit

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Expanding on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Srbija FF and several others, I don't see this low-level Swedish football club meeting GNG. Modest history peaking on the 6th tier. Geschichte (talk) 20:46, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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FC Giffarna edit

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Expanding on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Srbija FF and several others, I don't see this low-level Swedish football club meeting GNG. Modest history peaking on the 6th tier. Geschichte (talk) 20:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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BK Skottfint edit

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Expanding on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Srbija FF and several others, I don't see this low-level Swedish football club meeting GNG. Modest history peaking on the 6th tier. Geschichte (talk) 20:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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2022 Liga 1 U-14 edit

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Football tournament for children supported by a couple of primary sources. Utterly insignificant within the football world, fails WP:SIGCOV. Geschichte (talk) 19:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - of no interest to anyone other than the parents of those taking part, really. No SIGCOV found. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:59, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per @User:Spiderone. Svartner (talk) 03:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ally Ridgers edit

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Non-notable footballer who has been attached to clubs at a higher level, but has never appeared above the (part-time) Scottish fourth tier. No evidence of significant coverage - the two references are to an article about his brother, in which he gets a passing mention, and a match report of a Highland League game. I have been unable to find much else other than this BBC article [[1]] about him joining Inverness Caledonian Thistle as loan back-up; he was a substitute for them in the SPL, but made no appearances. Jellyman (talk) 19:33, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Lukáš Jánošík edit

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I can't find any in-depth coverage for this Slovak men's football player to meet WP:GNG. The only news website I found regarding him is an injury, but something tells me that it's more of a trivial mention. Using the keyword "Lukáš Janošík" on Google, even with "site:.sk", my search results only came up with database, club websites, passing mentions, and *facepalm* random namesakes. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 09:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. Over 130 first-tier games over a 9-year period, 2016–17 league champion as well as one stint playing abroad - usually doesn't look like a deletion candidate. I haven't had the time to look for sources yet. Geschichte (talk) 16:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Some quick links, assessment later. [2] [3] [4] [5] Geschichte (talk) 19:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Logan Cousins edit

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Young footballer played a few minutes in a cup game. Does not yet meet GNG, only gets passing mentions and routine coverage. The article in a club magazine isn't independent. Could also be draftified as an ATD. MarchOfTheGreyhounds 08:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 14:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vann Tailamey edit

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Footballer bio fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORTS. The only available sources are WP:ROUTINE game coverage, which does not convey notability, and reference/database sites. No evidence of the minimum one piece of WP:SIGCOV required for athletes. Dclemens1971 (talk) 23:41, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 14:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abdulellah Jerman edit

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Played 6 games at professional level about 10 years ago and then disappeared. The article is a stats stub and doesn't demonstrate a passing of WP:GNG. The only sources that I could find were trivial mentions in Hihi and a forum post in Al Iraq. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 14:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ziyad Al-Mutairi edit

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Stats stub on a footballer that played 30 mins of professional league football 10 years ago and then disappeared. My Arabic searches failed to yield anything about a footballer of this name and only gave me some coverage on a fencer of the same name. No evidence of meeting WP:GNG or even WP:SPORTBASIC #5. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 14:33, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mohammed Al-Abdooli edit

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Made 6 appearances at professional level before disappearing. This article is completely lacking in decent sourcing for a BLP and WP:GNG doesn't seem to be met. The best source that I could find was UAE FA, which only mentions him once in passing. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:56, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 14:33, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abdullah Majrashi (footballer, born 1990) edit

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I can't find any decent coverage for this footballer that only played one professional match. My Arabic searches are yielding coverage about Abdullah Majrashi (footballer, born 1997) and Ali Majrashi but nothing about the one born in 1990. No evidence that this footballer complies with WP:GNG or WP:SPORTBASIC #5. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tomáš Chovanec edit

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Long-unsourced article of a Slovak men's footballer who mostly played in small football clubs before disappearing in 2019. I could only find a story of his transfer to MFK OKD Karviná, which is routine and not significant coverage. Under the keyword "Tomáš Chovanec", Google searches mostly find other men of the same name than this footballer, failing WP:V too. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 10:19, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. There is no corresponding article in Czech. Svartner (talk) 14:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I find a lot of Slovak sources to be paywalled and tricky to assess fully but I couldn't find anything that looks to comply with GNG. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Philadelphia Union broadcasters edit

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WP:NOTTVGUIDE applies here. Just another case of WP:LISTCRUFT to appeal to the most ardent fans. Fails WP:LISTN. Additionally WP:NOTDATABASE and WP:ROUTINE. As with sources per WP:RS, these consists of WP:PRIMARY and dead links, the only decent source is an announcment for a new announcer; not helping this list to assert notability. SpacedFarmer (talk) 10:18, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of New England Revolution broadcasters edit

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WP:NOTTVGUIDE applies here. Just another case of WP:LISTCRUFT to appeal to the most ardent fans. Fails WP:LISTN. Additionally WP:NOTDATABASE and WP:ROUTINE. As with sources per WP:RS, only consist of a single one about the 2023 season; not helping this list to assert notability. SpacedFarmer (talk) 10:15, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Are we just going to keep nominating anything related to do with television on shoddy deletion premises? At worst this should be merged into individual season articles. SportingFlyer T·C 17:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jang Sok-chol edit

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 01:12, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 02:39, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kristian Benkő edit

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As is the case with several players from Hungarian football around this time, he had a short career in the NBI with no significant coverage that can be found about it. Little is known about his career after 2015, when the HLSZ profile ends. He did score many goals on one of Sweden's lower tiers, which is hardly significant, neither is his signing for a team on the 7th tier. Geschichte (talk) 09:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 14:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Friedenau SC Excelsior Berlin edit

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Completely unsourced at the moment. The official website is dead at the moment (for me). WP:NTEAM points to WP:GNG. Significant coverage and no reliable sources (or sources at all) not established. Moved to draft twice by Wikishovel and Dan arndt, but creator has moved back to mainspace twice without substantial improvements. Not mentioned on Berlin-Liga. The corresponding German article (Sport-Excelsior Friedenau) has different information about founding, activity, kits, and other details.

Three options:

Return to draft (with WP:SALT if warranted)
Delete
Redirect to Founding Clubs of the DFB

Side note: many of the team articles from Founding Clubs of the DFB have similar issues. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 04:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, lacks any independent sources required to establish notability. As indicated by the nominator the article's creator refuses to leave it as a draft, where improvements could be made. Also redirecting serves no real purpose as most of the articles included in the list fail WP:GNG. Dan arndt (talk) 09:13, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Clearly something fishy going on, as Friedenau SC Excelsior Berlin was purportedly founded in 1920, at the same time being a founder of the DFB 20 years earlier. The German Wikipedia article has some history from the 1890s and states that little is known about the club after 1900. I can't confirm their playing in the Berlin-Liga, so fails WP:V. Geschichte (talk) 09:29, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – It is difficult to assume good faith... Svartner (talk) 11:14, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. Yes there's a whole raft of these unreferenced minor German club articles by same editor. I managed to source TSV Grolland sufficient to avoid a move back to draft, but tire quickly of sourcing unsourced stubs cranked out at speed. Couldn't find any RS for this one, and draft is for articles that can be improved, not indefinite parking for unsourceable articles. Wikishovel (talk) 12:51, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment You can lock it to draft space, what's silly is, is that MintyFresh201 was using what was technically wikipedia as a citation! Big no there. If sourced correctly I wouldn't mind the article. But in it's current state I can't disagree with the nomination for deletion. Govvy (talk) 14:21, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment (nominator), just an update, I started an SPI. Pinging commentors above, Dan_arndt, Geschichte, Svartner, Wikishovel, Govvy. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 00:51, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (author) Honestly, after reviewing the comments here and on my talk page, I also agree that the article Friedenau SC Excelsior Berlin should be deleted.

MintyFresh201 (talk) 01:37, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nomination. A football club from amateur league with significant coverage that is difficult to find. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 10:09, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just want to comment that the topic itself seems like it could be notable, looking at German sources. If this is deleted, I have no problem if it's properly sourced and restored. SportingFlyer T·C 16:37, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to Founding Clubs of the DFB. Giant Snowman 15:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Najd FC edit

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Fails GNG and NORG. Unsourced article, nothing found in BEFORE meets WP:SIRS, addressing the subject directly and indepth from independent sources. Found name mentions, routine sports mill news, listings, nothing that meets WP:SIRS. // Timothy :: talk 01:21, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect – To List of football clubs in Saudi Arabia. Svartner (talk) 11:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of football clubs in Saudi Arabia: The article currently don’t meet notability as no sources are available. Currently it is best to redirect as Svartner suggested. GrabUp - Talk 12:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 15:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Martin Suchý edit

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This Slovak men's footballer last played for Czech club Karviná in 2011 before disappearing from the football world.

Under the keyword "Martin Suchý", search engine results almost come up with other men of that name, including an author from Denník N and another footballer from FK Přibram. Without evidence of him even being an author and playing for FK Přibram, these cases clearly fail WP:V.

Sources that came up in my search regarding the AfD target were trial in Příbram, an interview by Deník, injury update, and another interview by SME that covers his current life. In my opinion, none of them are independent coverage that signal WP:GNG. Corresponding articles in other languages are unsourced stubs (I checked and translated them).

Clara A. Djalim (talk) 12:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Page fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Duke of New Gwynedd (talk | contrib.) 13:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:32, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2025 FIFA Club World Cup qualifying edit

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There is no qualification page for the Club World Cup because it isn't a qualification tournament like others. Other competitions qualify you and all those pages are linked to in the main article. This page just repeats a lot of information already available. Chris1834 Talk 13:31, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Hello. I understand that there is repeated information, but other information is not. The ranking system is nowhere to be found, as it is deleted from the main page every time the teams qualified by ranking. What I propose is that if the page is deleted, the tables be placed somewhere, either in the articles of the continental tournaments, or in the Club World Cup article. If you tell people that a team is qualified by ranking and at no time show them that ranking, they will not understand it Largopajero (talk) 15:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will give you an example. In argentine Primera Division the relegation is defined by a table made up of several tournaments, there is no tournament that defines it, but the table is shown somewhere. In this case we can't even put a link to the 4-year confederations' ranking because it is nowhere to be found. It must appear somewhere.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Argentine_Primera_Divisi%C3%B3n#Relegation_based_on_coefficients Largopajero (talk) 16:06, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Per nom. Unnecessary fork, the ways in which the clubs qualifyed could be in the main article. Svartner (talk) 17:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. But the tables are eliminated when the teams qualify. If that didn't happen, I would never have made this page. I have no problem moving them to the main article if they are not deleted, otherwise I feel like the rankings should stay somewhere. Largopajero (talk) 18:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per nom. Also considered an unnecessary fork. I consider that it is more appropriate to list just the teams in contention at the main 2025 FIFA Club World Cup article, which is a table that does not show the teams that are not in contention. Such a table in the main article would not be relevant until probably the fourth year of the four year qualifying process (before which far too many teams are in contention), and such tables existed for all confederations at this article and slowly reduced as teams were no longer in contention, and finally disappeared when all teams either qualified or were eliminated. There is discussion on at the moment about the formatting of this table, and whether the subset listed is WP:CALC or relying too much on WP:OR in the application of WP:CALC. (link here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#FIFA_Club_World_Cup_teams_in_contention). This discussion may be relevant if this article survives the AFD process. To list the entire tables for each confederation as a static, non-reducing table (i.e. showing all teams not just those in contention) may have difficulties with WP:NOTSTATS. Matilda Maniac (talk) 22:41, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What I believe is that somehow you have to show people how the team qualified. If you simply say that it was due to ranking, there is no information because the ranking is not found anywhere. Largopajero (talk) 23:29, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All qualified clubs via continental championship and the 4-year ranking are more than enough sourced in the main article. The ranking can also be seen in this specified source FIFA Club World Cup 2025™ Confederations ranking - inside.fifa.com. It is no real qualifying competition to meet WP:GNG as a stand-alone article. Miria~01 (talk) 00:11, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, but surely the table will be deleted when the new classification begins. It will not remain for the archive. Furthermore, if being able to see the tables on an external website is enough, there should not be any tables on Wikipedia Largopajero (talk) 03:14, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that you don't want to overload the main article with tables, that's why I created another one separately. I insist that it has information that is not found anywhere on Wikipedia. What I propose is that if you decide to delete the article, find a place to show the tables and how the teams qualified by ranking. Largopajero (talk) 23:32, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The information on rankings is referenced, at the current FIFA reference or at Footy rankings.com. An alternative to tables that reduce and disappear is to restore to the main article the table for each Confederation showing the figures of just the small subset of teams that did qualify by this method. Again, that can be accommodated at the main article, small tables so it doesn't unbalance the whole article, and not as a fork to a separate article. Matilda Maniac (talk) 03:23, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree. Again, I feel like the tables should be somewhere, I only made this article because on the main page they were deleted when the qualifications were resolved. I believe that showing the qualifieds and the first team eliminated (to reference the score to be overcome), is enough Largopajero (talk) 12:28, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Per nom. and @Matilda Maniac: No real qualifying competition as it does not meet WP:GNG as a stand-alone article. Still in contention 4-year ranking in the main article, as it is the current practice, is sufficient. Miria~01 (talk) 00:03, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete there is not a qualifying tournament for this, so this article is nonsense. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So an article for ranking like these? UEFA coefficient, FIFA Men's World Ranking

Or the tables where they would go? Largopajero (talk) 15:56, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No separate article for these tables is needed. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know, I think they should be in the main article, but there are only the teams left in contention. That's why I created this one. Once the teams finish qualifying, the ranking information will be lost Largopajero (talk) 13:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep on the grounds of WP:SPLIT. The 4-year ranking tables are useful information but they really clutter up the main article. I think having them in this article is a good compromise between keeping in the parent article, and removing from the parent article. BLAIXX 15:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Another alternative - for the main article - is to restore the tables but only for those teams that actually qualified by this rankings method, such as the table below. I don't think it would unbalance the article having 6 small tables, and it doesn't need the level of detail from each season with wins/draws/losses/rounds: that information can be found from the reference if required. As there are secondary references available (such as Footy rankings) that alleviates the danger that the information at the current primary reference from FIFA will be simply wiped and unavailable at the start of the next cycle. The extra 6 tables giving more details about the champions (venue of finals and runners-up etc.) are completely unnecessary as they can be found directly at the sections on the knockout stages of each of the relevent articles for the confederation tournaments. Matilda Maniac (talk) 00:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not far from that idea. Yes, I consider that at least the best team that is not in the qualification zone should be shown, to show the points that were necessary to obtain, to qualify.

I think that the existence of an external link to see the rankings is not a sufficient argument, because under that criterion, it would not be necessary to put tables of any competition.

Regarding the details of the matches, I don't see anything wrong with it, it is something that provides information, that better explains how the teams reached that score and that does not take up additional vertical space for the article.

Then, thinking about the future, when the World Cup is being played and there are group tables and knockout stage brackets, it does make me believe that another article is a good idea, although I understand the arguments that suggest that it is not necessary Largopajero (talk) 01:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Club	2021	2022	2023	2024	Total
River Plate	22	23	19	13†	77
Boca Juniors	18	18	35		71
Olimpia	20	11	26		57

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The rankings have the official FIFA website as a source, as does the scoring system. What other source is needed? Let me know and I'll add it Largopajero (talk) 17:41, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Two more sources added Largopajero (talk) 18:32, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Where is the significant coverage? Two from FIFA, one from ESPN, one from Goal. All routine. Giant Snowman 18:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you explain to me what you consider significant coverage? Or give me an example, please Largopajero (talk) 19:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many sources added, such as BBC, New York Times, Forbes, among others. Please let me know what else is needed. Largopajero (talk) 05:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coment Many arguments for deleting the article justify that it is not a qualifying tournament or that there is information that is repeated from the main articles of the confederation tournaments.

I think that something similar happens in the 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup qualification, where five of the six confederations use their continental tournaments as qualifiers.

Even in this article there is more repeated information because the entire knockout stage brackets are in the article.

I think that in a split article it is normal for information to be repeated. It is a good opportunity to define a design for this new form of qualification, which is unprecedented. Largopajero (talk) 20:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pyotr Kosarevsky edit

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Non-notable BLP, his career is largely confined to second-level football. Allan Nonymous (talk) 21:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete -- I am unable to find enough coverage to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 21:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete -- Nowhere going near WP:GNG MaskedSinger (talk) 05:01, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - minor league, zero goals, poor sourcing. Bearian (talk) 23:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bert Allum edit

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Couldn't find significant coverage of him. I searched on newspapers.com for his name as well as "Albert Allum" and "Albie Allum" but no sigcov was found. Dougal18 (talk) 12:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 May 14. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 12:26, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FK Bosna 92 Örebro edit

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Expanding on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Srbija FF, I don't see this low-level Swedish football club meeting GNG. Modest history peaking on the 5th tier. (They are now on the 6th.) Geschichte (talk) 07:38, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:58, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kristbergs IF edit

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Expanding on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Srbija FF, I don't see this low-level Swedish football club meeting GNG. Modest history peaking on the 5th tier. (They are now on the 8th.) Geschichte (talk) 07:39, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of MLS Cup broadcasters edit

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WP:NOTTVGUIDE applies here. Just another case of WP:INDISCRIMINATE WP:LISTCRUFT to appeal to nobody but the small minority of the most ardent fans; another excessively bloated list fit for Fandom but is it encyclopaedic for here? The subjects are not described as a group, failing WP:LISTN. Additionally WP:NOTDATABASE and WP:ROUTINE. As with sources per WP:RS; one is a Twitter post, one is a now a dead link and the other is an announcment; neither doing anything to establish notability and the rest is unsourced. SpacedFarmer (talk) 06:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 09:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Over 120 different sources have just been added, bumping the current total to about 123 references. If that doesn't establish the notability, then I really don't know what else there is that could do it. Also, Major League Soccer, is one of the big five North American professional sports leagues alongside the NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball, and NHL. It's also the official #1 professional soccer organization in North America, and has been since it launched in 1996. Broadcasting information about the MLS Cup is further detailed in the individual articles for each MLS Cup event. So it isn't like there is little remote interest about this particular subject overall. BornonJune8 (talk) 10:01, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This will definitely pass in 2009 but c'mon, this is 2024. Sourcing guidelines has changed since. First of all, Twitter does not count as a WP:RS, neither do YouTube. Bornon, Have you ever voted delete in any of my nominations? SpacedFarmer (talk) 12:07, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Big 5? LOL No such thing. Of course, there's the big 4. Back to the subject; these all consists of announcment posts, WP:PRIMARY, two are Twitter posts, most others are about the game and less the broadcasting. SpacedFarmer (talk) 12:15, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per failing WP:LISTN. I reviewed the sources and I can chalk it up to this: TV announcements (WP:NOTTVGUIDE), WP:PRIMARY from mlssoccer.com, and of course WP:ROUTINE announcements about the schedule/broadcasting team. None of which provide justifiability for this article's existence. Conyo14 (talk) 15:25, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:25, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Per nom. Chris1834 Talk 15:02, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SpacedFarmer: First of, why do you insist on replying to virtually single counterargument that somebody makes when you make an AFD? That's if you ask me, bordering on WP:BLUDGEONING? Also, like I said, there's broadcasting info in the individual MLS Cup articles themselves, such as the very first one in 1996. They're sourced or as good as the sources could possibly or remotely be. Here's some further articles about the MLS Cup broadcasting coverage, after the fact. BornonJune8 (talk) 7:07, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Furthermore, Major League Soccer actually is considered part of the "Big 5" among North American professional sports franchises. Los Angeles Football Club, according to this article, was in the year 2023, valued at over $900 million. That's more than the Pittsburgh Penguins, Seattle Kraken, and Calgary Flames of the NHL. BornonJune8 (talk) 7:16, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Information about the viewership averages for the MLS Cup dating back to 1996 has now been added to the bottom of the article. BornonJune8 (talk) 07:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman: Here's a collection of articles about the MLS Cup's television ratings and viewership: MLS Cup draws largest total audience in 25 years, Canada’s TSN drew almost as many MLS Cup viewers as the U.S. broadcast on ABC, despite Canada having 1/10th the people, MLS Cup on ABC down almost 50 percent from 2018 on Fox and close to 2017 on ESPN, with earlier timing likely a factor, Fox’s coverage of MLS Cup final sees highest viewership for final since 1997, MLS Cup 2017 on ESPN draws lower overnight from last year, 2015 MLS Cup Final avoids distinction of being least watched ever, Weekly sports ratings: NFL, NBA, Army-Navy, MLS Cup and more, Ratings: MLS Cup, Lakers and more. And here's an additional article that discusses Bob Ley preforming play-by-play for the 1997 MLS Cup telecast on ABC. BornonJune8 (talk) 04:17, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Further information that includes details about radio coverage, television ratings (including local markets), and international television coverage (such as the networks and commentators) have now been added to hopefully provide some better context. BornonJune8 (talk) 05:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- As of now, there are over 200, almost 300 references in the article. BornonJune8 (talk) 05:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Argue how you like but I don't understand why is it necessary for have this list? Why not merge it to the one about the league instead? As it being the 'big 5', ask an American how popular it is there, they laugh at you. SpacedFarmer (talk) 10:38, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep this clearly passes WP:GNG, and the nomination statement is clearly flawed. NOTTVGUIDE specifically allows historically important television information, and this is looks at the history of broadcasting. The other WP:NOTs outlined in the deletion rationale - I've been at AfD enough to know that they're a grab bag of WP:IDONTLIKEITs - this isn't a database, the sources aren't routine, and now we're wasting time on this here. SportingFlyer T·C 16:43, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also since a couple people have used WP:ROUTINE - that clearly doesn't apply as even though not every source qualifies for GNG, there's plenty of national coverage of the broadcasters and game ratings, including from Canada's National Post. WP:NOTDATABASE is also clearly wrong - this article is mostly prose. SportingFlyer T·C 23:01, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP:LISTN is not met as this grouping isn't discussed in secondary sources. Let'srun (talk) 22:20, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. This seems clearly true? There are many, many references and the broadcast every cup is compared to all of the previous cups, making a list a properly notable topic. SportingFlyer T·C 22:58, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that, but what WP:THREE would you say do this? Let'srun (talk) 13:46, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning Keep per BornonJune8 and SportingFlyer. There's nearly 300 references and much well-sourced text describing the history of MLS Cup broadcasters; I don't think it could be merged anywhere. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
300 sources, I'd advise BornonJune8 of WP:REFBOMBING. SpacedFarmer (talk) 07:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SpacedFarmer: The article "Professional sports leagues in the United States" in itself, lists Major League Soccer as one of the top five major professional sports leagues in North America alongside Major League Baseball, the National Basketball Association, the National Football League, and the National Hockey League. To put things into perspective, in the United States, the 2022 MLS Cup had more viewers than the 2020 Stanley Cup final. Here's a 2023 article from Forbes on Major League Soccer's growth. BornonJune8 (talk) 07:50, 178 May 2024 (UTC)

Furthermore, according to this article on MLS' attendance, Major League Soccer in the year 2022 had a higher average attendance than the NBA and NHL in 2022–23. MLS that year had an average attendance of 21,033 whereas the NBA had an 18,077 average attendance and the NHL had an 17,101 average attendance in that same time frame. In 2023, MLS set a new season long attendance record. BornonJune8 (talk) 08:11, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty idiotic comparing leagues taking place to a stadium vs one in an arena. Like comparing apples to oranges. Still, doesn't make it any bigger considering the size of those stadiums.

I cannot give the figures now as NHL is in a playoff, so cost of tickets will be higher but the average ticket for an NHL game costs $94. according to [6]. A ticket to see DC United will cost $21 according to Ticketmaster. Again, this list is not about how big MLS is to Americans. SpacedFarmer (talk) 08:44, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, the average seating capacity of a Major League Soccer stadium is said to be between 18,000 and 30,000. PayPal Park, which is home of the San Jose Earthquakes, is currently the smallest MLS stadium at about 18,000 seats. Meanwhile, the average NBA arena has a capacity of 18,790. And the average capacity of an NHL arena is around 16,000–20,000. This is not like comparing an NBA or NHL arena to an NFL stadium, which has an average seating capacity of 60,000–80,000. The current smallest NBA arena in terms of capacity is the State Farm Arena in Atlanta, which has a 16,600 maximum capacity BornonJune8 (talk) 09:24, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What does this have to do with the broadcasting teams? Conyo14 (talk) 16:10, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to MLS Cup Playoffs. I'm not a fan of listcruft, but I can see some value in preserving the history on this one, including all those sources. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 19:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Francis Mensah edit

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Another poorly sourced BLP with no WP:SIGCOV demonstrated. The best that I can find are Abidjan 1 and Abidjan 2, both passing mentions in Ivorian media. The Feyenoord mentioned is the one in Ghana, not the Dutch team. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:02, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I fixed the link to the Voice of America article, which seems pretty good. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 12:37, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for restoring it. I'm not going to withdraw this AfD yet as I don't think that it's enough on its own for a GNG pass. The coverage is Fifteen-year-old Francis Joe Mensah is one of the academy's best players, a lightning-quick, technically solid, left back, who can also play left wing. He predicts he will make it in Europe. He says he has no fear of failure. followed by a quote from the subject. I also think WP:YOUNGATH might apply given the age of the subject at the time (the coverage does not seem to be substantial and prolonged). I'd be interested to know what others think. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:41, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - no evidence of notability. One source on its own not enough. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 12:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:55, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ibrahim Babangida (footballer) edit

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I've been unable to find if this Nigerian footballer who recently died in a car crash passes WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG. Duke of New Gwynedd (talk | contrib.) 10:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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He won the 1993 FIFA U-17 World Championship. Don't delete the article. 186.176.235.73 (talk) 11:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That has no relevance to SPORTCRIT or GNG Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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An ATD is to merge/redirect to Tijani Babangida where he is currently mentioned, not least since Tijani was in the same car crash. Another alternative to deletion would of course be to find sigcov in the Netherlands. Geschichte (talk) 14:37, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He play at the Eredivisie and won the Nigerian Premier League in 1992. 201.206.42.68 (talk) 01:55, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I think there's enough coverage of his death, including pieces like this, which show notability. He had 50+ games in the Dutch professional leagues, the issue is searching is skewed to just reports of his death. Giant Snowman 12:51, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 21:28, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Per GiantSnowman. Player with sources and pro career including 50+ appearances in fully pro Dutch league and definitly has more offline sources. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 01:59, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christian Nanetti edit

AfDs for this article:

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This footballer, who seems to have never played in the top 3 tiers in Italy or top 4 tiers in England, was deemed non-notable in an AfD discussion in 2020. I can't find signicant coverage in reliable sources published since then that would suggest he is now notable – per WP:GNG, as WP:NFOOTBALL is obsolete. The article content is not the same as the version deleted in 2020, so WP:CSD#G4 does not apply. ^Complex/_Rational 17:28, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - I found [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15] among many more English and Italian sources. Clearly siginifciant figure in English lower league football with extnsive career. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 19:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of these sources, The Sun and Daily Mail are not considered reliable (deprecated, as documented at WP:RS/PS), and several others are blogs/tabloids which have similar shortcomings. Is there anything in more reputed sources such as BBC, Sky News, The Guardian, etc.? ^Complex/_Rational 20:24, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. seems okay, but not sure it's WP:SIGCOV, 2. per WP:THESUN, The Sun is deprecated and its articles do not contribute to notability, 3. very short, mostly quotes 4. short, mostly quotes, 5. a Wordpress blog – is the author a "subject-matter expert"?, 6. very short, mostly quotes, 7. short, mostly quotes, 8. one sentence mentions him, 9. per WP:DAILYMAIL, The Daily Mail is deprecated and its articles do not contribute to notability. So, of the nine sources you listed, one might be SIGCOV. Based on these sources alone, I don't see that Nannetti's a clearly significiant figure in English lower league football. Robby.is.on (talk) 20:29, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All the sources show secondary coverage and the Sun is considered by some to be reliable for sports. Put together, all these sources show that he has been a clear topic of interest in English lower league football. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – Per @Das osmnezz. Svartner (talk) 21:20, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:47, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: BLP, fails GNG and NBIO. Sources in article fail WP:SIRS, and the sources listed above none are independent significal coverage addressing the subject directly and indepth. Found listings, name mentions, nothing that meets WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject indepth. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 15:33, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All the sources are about him and go into his background and show secondary coverage and the Sun is considered by some to be reliable for sports. Put together, all these sources about him show that he has been a clear topic of interest in English lower league football. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 23:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:24, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FC Armătura Zalău edit

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Despite a large addition, it remains mainly unsourced. Existing sources do not provide WP:SIGCOV, so fails WP:GNG. - UtherSRG (talk) 10:31, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - the club played in Liga II AdrianCioran 13:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NTEAM cares not about what ivision th team played in. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:49, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I am on the fence on this article too. I would like to see more sources, is there no Romania wiki page for this club? Govvy (talk) 17:03, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The situation is a bit sad. The club is 100% notable, but User:AdrianCioran can't help but engage in move-warring, and doesn't understand basic Wikipedia policies or the deletion process. Look at the article history: User:Florin1977 tried to keep it in draft space with the edit summary "do not publish yet". AdrianCioran edited disruptively. Geschichte (talk) 20:23, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. I'd accept draftify as WP:ATD and that would be community consensus that would enable limited, but escalating, blocks on Adrian. - UtherSRG (talk) 01:48, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I support such action. Weak understanding of how Wikipedia works and hardly any communication - I'm noting a message written in Romanian on his talk page half a year ago, which translates to: "Don't create pages if you don't know how, because the moderators will delete them". Geschichte (talk) 09:27, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep – Same situation than Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CS Auxerre Lugoj. Svartner (talk) 00:31, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:43, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Drafify - as above, not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 18:46, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Clearly notable even though their successful period was pre-internet, can even find recent articles such as [16]. SportingFlyer T·C 05:57, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify: A pretty significant football club with some sourcing and notability, but I'd like to see something better than that with more reliable sourcing. HarukaAmaranth ^春 _香 13:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We shouldn't be in the habit of draftifying notable articles even if the sourcing isn't great. This already has six sources. SportingFlyer T·C 16:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 14:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep/Draftify: Notable, even though sources may not be readily available online.Anonimu (talk) 16:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Virtually certain to be notable. There appear to be nearly 10,000 results on newspaper archive Arcanum. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:23, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Isaac Álvarez (footballer) edit

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Reviewed during NPP. No evidence of wp:notability under GNG or SNG. Has only two datbase entry / stats sources. Main statement is that he was on the team for a South American championship but didn't play. North8000 (talk) 14:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Bolivia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:12, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: From the DICCIONARIO BIOGRAFICO DEL FUTBOL BOLIVIANO (1930-2000):

"Nombre completo: Isaac Álvarez Moscoso. Apodo: La “Araña negra”. Nacimiento: Cochabamba, 6 de julio de 1933. Posición: Guardameta, No 1. Padres: ..... Esposa: ..... Hijos: Jorge Isaac, Jenny Carmiña, Martín Erick. Estudios: Primaria Escuela Carrillo, Secundaria Colegio Carrillo de Cochabamba. Otros Estudios: INSEF. Profesor de Educación Física. Cursos de Dirección Técnica. Clubes: En el Club 31 de Octubre (1963), de La Paz. Participación en la selección: Es Campeón Sudamericano de 1963. Jugó por la selección boliviana dos partidos oficiales (1963-1965) y fue batido en tres oportunidades. Es Campeón Sudamericano Invicto 1963. No tuvo participación oficial en dicho campeonato figurando en la banca. Dirección Técnica: Fue Preparador Físico en The 16 Strongest (1990). Otros Datos: Practicó el Atletismo, el Básquetbol, el Voleibol y el Fútbol. Distinciones: El gobierno mediante la repartición respectiva condecoró con la Medalla al Mérito Deportivo en el Grado de Caballero del Deporte, al cumplirse los 40 años de la conquista del XXI Campeonato Sudamericano. Además de ser acreedor a la pensión vitalicia de 4 sueldos mínimos mensuales."

There is also a bit of coverage here, which although not published in a reliable source, is definitely more evidence of notability. JTtheOG (talk) 17:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 15:32, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 15:34, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @GiantSnowman: What's wrong with the ~170 word encyclopedia entry listed above? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Based on Google Translate, it covers the names of his children and the schools he went to in brief list form, and then briefly covers his playing career and then his pension... it's not enough on its own. Giant Snowman 15:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  It gives a decent enough bit of coverage for SIGCOV I think:

Full name: Isaac Álvarez Moscoso. Nickname: The “Black Spider”. Birth: Cochabamba, July 6, 1933. Position: Goalkeeper, No 1. Parents: ..... Wife: ..... Children: Jorge Isaac, Jenny Carmiña, Martín Erick. Studies: Primary School Carrillo, Secondary School Carrillo de Cochabamba. Other Studies: INSEF. Physical Education Teacher. Technical Management Courses. Clubs: At the 31 de Octubre Club (1963), in La Paz. Participation in the national team: He is the 1963 South American Champion. He played for the Bolivian team in two official matches (1963-1965) and was beaten three times. He is the 1963 Undefeated South American Champion. He had no official participation in said championship, appearing on the bench. Technical Direction: He was a Physical Trainer on The 16 Strongest (1990). Other Information: He played Athletics, Basketball, Volleyball and Soccer. Distinctions: The government, through the respective distribution, awarded the Medal of Sports Merit in the Degree of Knight of Sports, on the 40th anniversary of the conquest of the XXI South American Championship. In addition to being a creditor of the lifetime pension of 4 minimum monthly salaries

- Probably could use more sources though... BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:50, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The above source is pretty comprehensive and he definetly has more offline sources, having won the 1963 South American Championship with the Bolivia national team. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 07:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 10:13, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sirimongkol Rattanapoom edit

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Nothing has been written that suggests notability, and any argument like there being sources that are full-length can shake the elephant in the room, the Catch-22 if you will: if this player is so notable, why isn't he playing? He's played zero minutes this season in Belgium's amateur third division. He has no international appearances, and in all due respect it's easier to be chosen for Thailand than for Brazil or Spain. He's 22 this month, so if he's some special player who passes WP:GNG without any professional appearances, when are they going to come? I know people like to make articles about teenagers at big clubs, based on hype press, but a 22-year-old at an amateur Belgian club is clearly a different kettle of fish. While I disagree with the old WP:NFOOTY regulation that a player was notable as soon as they made one professional appearance, it's a good measure at least. Also bear in mind that [17] this source comes from King Power, the Thai company that owns his Belgian club, so it is not independent anyway. Additionally, the creator made this article as an incomprehensible quote farm from Google Translate, suggesting an unfamiliarity with Thai sources. [18] Unknown Temptation (talk) 09:53, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Thailand. Shellwood (talk) 10:04, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 15:31, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:34, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - @GiantSnowman:, I found [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], among manu more Thai sources. Clearly sigifficant young player in Thailand with ongoing career. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 19:54, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on Google Translate: source 1 is brief coverage about 4 Thai players playing in Belgium; source 2 is not independent as per the nom; source 3 is paywalled; source 4 is routine transfer coverage; and source 5 is brief coverage about him playing for Thailand under-23. Where is the significant coverage? Giant Snowman 20:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know how you interpreted the first source to be "brief coverage about 4 Thai players playing in Belgium", it is about him and most of the text is solely about his background alone. The third source is also not paywalled. The fourth source is sedifnityl not "routine transfer coverage" since he joined the team much earlier and it goes into his background as well. Clearly sigifficant young player in Thailand with ongoing career who has played for the Thaialnd olympic team and is one of few players abroad. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An Olympic team is an under-23 team. Footballers at the Olympics get some coverage, but per Football at the 2024 Summer Olympics – Men's tournament, the only Thai going there at all is a VAR. As I said before, it's not hard to play senior football for Thailand, so if this guy is so great, why isn't he? Why are we treating someone as an exceptional promise for the future if he can't play for Thailand or for a third-division Belgian club when he's 22? Is that really an "ongoing career"? Unknown Temptation (talk) 23:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I said before, the sources are good. Your other argument doesnt make sense because there are lots of notable footballers with good sources with Wikipedia pages who have not played for Thailand and saying its "not hard to play for Thailand" is completely dismissive. On the contrary, he is considered skilled enough to play abroad, which few Thai players do. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:49, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I know people like to make articles about teenagers at big clubs, based on hype press – that may be the case, but I'm not sure there's any policy-based guidance that defines "hype press" or categorises them as unreliable for the GNG's purposes. That said, the Ballthai article appears to be the only in-depth piece of independent coverage. The others are brief updates and short interviews. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:14, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Besides the Ballthai one, the other sources contain secondary coverage like "showed impressive form... is a versatile player in Midfield position Able to play both offense and defense. His highlight is his sharp reading of the game. And the interception is quite accurate. He is the third generation product of the Fox Hunt program" etc. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 11:03, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, they're brief. Maybe they could be considered significant taken together, but that's up to interpretation; I'm not yet convinced either way. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:30, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 01:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mexico–United States 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bid edit

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Nominating based on User:AFC Vixen's edit summary. The bid has been withdrawn, thus failing WP:GNG any relevant information can be moved to 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bids LouisOrr27 (talk) 14:41, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports and Football. LouisOrr27 (talk) 14:41, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Mexico, and United States of America. Skynxnex (talk) 16:14, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per nom. Redirect to 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bids is also valid. Svartner (talk) 18:19, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – The same (withdrawn bid) appears to happen with South Africa 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bid. Svartner (talk) 18:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge both Mexico–United States 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bid and South Africa 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bid into 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bids — ILoveSport2006 reverted my first attempt at merging these articles because they felt the Mexico–United States article was "very good and adds a lot of info that the paragraph on the bid page doesn't say",^[1] and that "[the South Africa] bid could've won had they not withdrawn and deserves to stay as an article."^[2] The first argument ignores how said info can fit comfortably in the bid article, and the second is an unsubstantiated claim. — AFC Vixen 🦊 19:32, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – There are many withdrawn bid articles on Wikipedia, even for previous Women's World Cups. To say this bid article isn't notable is ridiculous because it was an official bid, had its own bid book and gained a lot of media attention from many publications in and outside of the US and Mexico. The Mexico–United States section on the 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bids page is bare and has a map that is terrible and lacks any detail, which makes it virtually useless since it doesn't even display what city and stadium it is talking about, it's just arrows. When you compare the map to the one on the Mexico–United States bid page, there's no comparison. Just type in Mexico–United States Women's World Cup bid on Google and you will find a plethora of articles talking about it. It couldn't be more notable if you tried. That tiny paragraph and map does not give a bid that could have won justice.

AFC Vixen you have just criticised my opinion with an opinion. If you disagree with my opinion, that's fine, but the way you have written it is like you're saying my opinion isn't even valid.

What I hate on Wikipedia is when people essentially delete history and interesting facts. This is deleting history and facts. Do not be trigger happy when deleting articles that people have put effort in. Some article can be terrible but this article is pretty good. ILoveSport2006 (talk) 20:09, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"There are many withdrawn bid articles on Wikipedia" is a textbook WP:WHATABOUT argument, and there are indeed city and stadium names on the interactive map; perhaps we could add a "Click the square to enlarge" or similar phrasing to the caption to make that clearer to readers. Again, there just isn't enough content here to justify a WP:SPINOUT from 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bids, and it can easily fit there instead. I don't appreciate these unsubstantiated accusations of "deleting history and facts" either. — AFC Vixen 🦊 20:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While the map is slightly better than I thought, It's still way worst than the one on the Mexico–United States Women's World Cup bid page. Also you took one part of my detailed reply which makes many valid points and think you have proven a point by only talking about one tiny aspect of my long reply. You didn't talk about my Google argument, the bid book argument or even the media attention argument. You talked about the only thing that you thought you could make an argument on. You are trying to invalidate my opinion by saying buzz words like unsubstantiated and put me down which I don't respect. This is a common practice on Wikipedia. Make arguments with absolutely no facts and put up links and write it like you are better than the other person.

Let's take the Budapest bid for the 2024 Summer Olympics for example, a withdrawn bid that is very notable.

You didn't say: "The reason why the withdrawn Budapest bid is notable and deserves to be an article but the Mexico–United States bid doesn't is because..." You are just throwing a WP:WHATABOUT argument on me and calling it a day. But that's not an argument. In my opinion, it's really unhelpful.

I don't appreciate these unsubstantiated accusations of deleting history and facts either Personally, I think they are substantiated to an extent because you did delete info from the 2027 FIFA Women's World Cup bids page under the guise of Cleaning the article up and massively cut down on fluff, but you can do both. You seemingly can't take my opinion without putting me down. I can take your opinion, but what I can't take is people fobbing me off with Wiki links with no proper facts or points behind their argument. You have no moral high ground if you put me down. ILoveSport2006 (talk) 22:00, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate that you feel very passionately about this, but can you stop pretending like I made personal attacks on you? I merely refuted your arguments with my own, which yes, they are opinions. That is what a discussion is. — AFC Vixen 🦊 22:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do appreciate that you realise that I'm very passionate about this, because it's 100% true, but I never said you made a personal attack, because you haven't. All I'm saying is that I hate when I make valid arguments and people throw a WP:WHATABOUT on me because that isn't an argument and it's a cheap throwaway comment that is disguised as an argument. Also, I felt like you were putting me down. ILoveSport2006 (talk) 23:06, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm not putting you down, I just genuinely think arguing this article should exist because others like it exist doesn't speak to what makes the page itself merit its existence in its own right, and you're probably better off just leaving those kinds of arguments out next time. — AFC Vixen 🦊 00:06, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But I did give you evidence. That's my point. My argument wasn't just "well other articles exist like it", I gave numerous points about how the article deserves to stay on its on own merit and all you did was throw a WP:WHATABOUT on me. ILoveSport2006 (talk) 10:52, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Mexico–United States 2031 FIFA Women's World Cup bid. Given that the same bid is just being moved to a later edition, it makes more sense to just keep the same article and modify it as needed. Note that the 2027 bid was withdrawn very very late in the process, so there would have been enough coverage for it to have a separate article at some point. Sounder Bruce 22:27, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This idea is something that I have thought about as well. This could work too. ILoveSport2006 (talk) 22:34, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and move per SounderBruce. Everything still seems relevant and notable, just pushed back. -2pou (talk) 00:02, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as above per Svartner. Giant Snowman 18:29, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This discussion is all over the map. I don't see a consensus yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:38, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Commment Just looking at references in the article, I don't see the sources that justify keeping a separate article. WP:BEFORE shows a lot of articles relaying (generally with a limited amount of re-writing) a press release by the US Soccer Federation on April 29th 2024 announcing that they have withdrawn the bid for 2027 and will bid together for 2031. Similarly, there are a good number of articles relaying the announcement of the bid by US Soccer on Dec 8th 2023 and April 19th 2024. Excluding these however does not reveal many sources. One I did find is by the Washington Post : Why FIFA should look past U.S.-Mexico bid to host 2026 women's World Cup, but I would be interested in what WP:THREE sources clearly establish notability. Shazback (talk) (belated signature - following reminder by Liz below)

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table:
https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2017/11/7/16616540/us-soccer-president-candidates-saying-women-uswnt		? Blog published by SBNation, unknown if Stephanie Yang is a reliable matter expert	Passing mention that Carlos Cordeiro believes the US should host the 2027 world cup	✘ No
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/06/13/2026-world-cup-usa-mexico-canada/			Passing mention that the US Soccer federation is planning to bid for the 2027 world cup	✘ No
https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/us-soccer-now-considers-bidding-for-2031-womens-world-cup/	~ Paywalled article - appears independent, but unclear as the content is not available	? Seems to have never been addressed in the reliable sources noticeboard	? Paywalled article - the primary content based on title & lead is a tentative bid for the 2031 world cup	? Unknown
https://justwomenssports.com/ussf-bid-host-2027-2031-womens-world-cup/		? Not in the reliable sources noticeboards	Very article basically relaying multiple times a short quote from USSF president Cindy parlow Cone	✘ No
https://www.infobae.com/america/deportes/2022/06/21/mexico-buscara-ser-sede-de-la-copa-mundial-de-la-fifa-femenil/			~ Really stretching to include it as significant, at best there are two paragraphs (137 words total) that are related to a potential 2027 bid	~ Partial
https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2023/04/us-soccer-and-mexican-football-federation-will-launch-joint-bid-to-cohost-2027-fifa-womens-world-cup	US Soccer Federation website			✘ No
https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2023/12/us-soccer-mexican-football-federation-submit-bid-right-to-host-2027-fifa-womens-world-cup	US Soccer Federation website			✘ No
https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/390c06917bd0f7a2/original/New-Heights-WWC27-Bid-Book-USA-Mexico.pdf	Publication by the US & Mexico Soccer Federations, hosted by FIFA			✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Still not seeing a consensus here so I'm giving this discussion another relist. Could we get a deletion sort for Women or Women's Sports, too? I think we need a few more participants here. Also, the source analysis, which isn't signed, was offerred by User:Shazback.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Albert Tjåland edit

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Albert Tjåland (2nd nomination)

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This succumbed to an AFD before, but since then it has been recreated due to "coverage in international media". It happened at a time when the player was looking to be moving up in the football hierarchy, but with all due respect to the player, the career has stagnated, which I think allows us to see the subject in a clearer light. In an encyclopedic sence, Albert Tjåland fails WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:SUSTAINED, WP:TOOSOON, WP:SIRS and as a consequence WP:SPORTCRIT.

ABT was a child whom international media took a novelty interest to.
His football career has not panned out. He plays on the fourth tier, has never played a league game for a first team, only reaching as far as appearing 6 times on Bryne's bench - as well as playing a cup game for Molde, which for WP:PEACOCK reasons is called "a professional debut". Nothing he has done remotely resembles a significant accomplishment within sport.
While there was coverage in many countries, there reports about various accomplishments in children's games lack significance, and was all the more packed with speculation and hot air. A big breakthrough is not currently looming on the horizon, and while it might of course happen one day, we have the too soon guideline for a reason.
The press coverage was exclusively motivated by him having a famous relative. Albert and Erling have similar names and likenesses, and joined the same club (Molde) as a youth player. Take the relative out of the equation, and what are you left with? Notability is not inherited from relatives. Geschichte (talk) 09:34, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Norway. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, passes GNG with significant coverage.--Ortizesp (talk) 12:52, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no significant coverage, just churnalism. As I took the time to explain why I think so above, I think you should explain your view as well. Geschichte (talk) 07:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 11:56, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Per Ortizesp. Young player with ongoing career with pro Norwegian top flight team and many good sources already. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 07:50, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Any further thoughts?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 06:47, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. My further thoughts are that the keep opinions are annulled by their lack of explanation and non-existing response as to the nomination statement, which detailed a failure of several policies. "significant coverage" and "many good sources" are unfounded opinions; "ongoing career with pro Norwegian top flight team" is false, Tjåland has an ongoing career with a semi-pro B team on the fourth tier. Geschichte (talk) 07:32, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]