User talk:Worm That Turned

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Hi Dave Rich Monday Here

Dave I am really struggling with how things work here...jeez! I put in a request for a name change like you said, in fact I think I did it twice and someone named CrisG. denied the request saying that "the name was already being used in 2 other places". I couldn't figure out how to contact him, like right now Dave am I contacting you the correct way? Anyway, I did a name search for a half hour and found no other Rich Monday, so I don't know where to begin to look for these 2 places using my name that he mentioned, why didn't he tell me where they were? Are these 2 places actually me using the name Rich Monday?

I want to understand this so bad, but I'm really confused, how will I learn it, how did you learn it and why, where should I begin? Like what is meta and en Wikipedia? Do you work here as a volunteer, or do you and others like Chris G. just take on projects for the challenge of it. What is the purpose of using this site and learning how to use it? Facebook is getting a little old and I miss doing other things...LOL? I run a couple picture blogs for fun and it's fun building them up. Dude I could sit here and ask so many more questions. I'm missing that certain link in my head that once I understand it, then it would all make a lot more since to me and clear up this fog I'm trying to see through. Ahh! it's hard to explain what I'm feeling, but it is a lost and confused feeling I'll tell you that, yet I'm drawn to the challenge of a new program to learn.

One last thing Dave, I'm really sorry for choosing you to help me Mr. newbie, but you are a lot more friendly and you leave links for me to get in the right direction. I so appreciate your help and I hope you don't get too frustrated with the questions, it's just that I am intrigued by the massive information stored here and the power to help keep it tidy. Is that kind of what you do hear, just answer questions and clean up articles and pages, etc.... Are you a writer at heart. There I go with more questions...damn son! I hope you don't run from me, because I think you're the bomb digity dog and I want to work more with you. Take care Dave and thanks again my new friend.

Rich — Preceding unsigned comment added by RichMonday (talk • contribs) 02:21, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Rich, it's 2:00 AM where I live, so I don't have time to address all of your concerns right now; however, I can tell you what went wrong with your username change request. It was formatted incorrectly, so it appeared like you wanted to change your name to User:newname. Copy this and paste it onto the bottom of this page (that link will take you directly to the edit window) then click save. {{subst:Renameuser|CURRENT=RichMonday|NEW=Rich Monday|REASON=I would like a space in the middle of my name}} ~~~~ I'll also leave a note on the talk page of an editor who responds to those requests so he'll know what to expect if there are any problems. Ryan Vesey Review me! 07:04, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

I left a note with a bureaucrat here. Ryan Vesey Review me! 07:12, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, would you look at that! Thanks for sorting things there Ryan! Worm^TT · (talk) 09:15, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

WP:DONTBITE

This is a part of a longer post on the Alkaline Diet Page called Harry Potter is a Girl. It relates to you somewhat and mentions you specifically. As I am a newbie I don't know how to do links so copied it here. Sorry for taking your space up on your talk page. Also sorry for WP:TLDR. As before please delete this if it is of no interest to you. I can't know what is and what is not of interest to you, and following WP:BOLD I am making my statement and you can decide what to do next.

THE ADMINISTRATORS: Dear administrators. As I am leaving Wiki editing after three days of being involved in it. I shall leave you with this information which I doubt you will read or care about, for my own self respect that I said it. I made a comment about the user Ronz for the administrator WormTT to read. As a newcomer to Wikipedia I followed the WP:BOLD rules and made a comment with uncertainty. I did not know if it was appropriate or not and I explained that with the very clear "Sorry if this is not the appropriate way to communicate this, and please fell free to delete and ignore this message if that is the case." WormTT might have said "Thanks I need to know that as I have to monitor that guy." Or WormTT might have said "I don't need to know that, what were you doing telling me that?!" Being a newcomer I didn't know the answer to that question. As there is another administrator dealing with the Alkaline Diet issues there was no intention to bring this administrator into that discussion. Therefore I was not trying to get support against Ronz. And since I'm not returning to Wikipedia editing, this post is also not made to get any support. Now that I have read some of the rules thrown at me these last 3 days, I can say that your comments here are WP:BATTLEGROUND and also WP:BITE. Rather than respecting my ignorance and reading my clear acknowledgement of this ignorance you have instead attacked me. Having been here three days I have noticed that those who have been here longer like to use countless unexplained WP:XXXX links to justify whatever they say, when ignoring those rules the links refer to. I was warned in WP:BOLD to not be fooled by this. I was also told in WP:BOLD to stand my ground. For example one editor criticized me for being impolite by me saying the words "Funny isn't it?" about another user attacking the very source he was defending, when he thought the comment was from me. Then the editor used the word "Bulls#!t" in a tirade against me. Then he sought to have me blocked. It's ok for him to break the rules but not ok for me the newbie. The same editor entered into a dispute resolution process with me while also asking for me to be blocked, thus cutting me off during the very dispute resolution he initiated. This allowed him to make his points with no way for me to respond. Then he claimed he didn't do that, while posting on a discussion board that he was happy I was blocked. Seeing I was blocked he didn’t say to the administrator “He is a newbie, I’m trying to educate him and resolve this, please unblock him.” Of course this block was also supported by the administrator who blocked me who could have seen I was in a dispute resolution process. I don't know how to block someone. But why would I want to? A few harsh words were said to me. Big deal. I'm an adult and I know that sticks and stones can break my bones, but words cannot hurt me. WP:CONS Consensus can only be reached when both sides can communicate, not just one side, because the other side is blocked from expressing their opinion. This would be against the Wikipedia rules WP:TALKDONTREVERT and WP:BOLD. Yet me having real points worth discussing has seen me blocked for a WP:BATTLEFIELD mentality. It's not such a mentality, it is just me knowing what I am talking about, while also being a newcomer. Some more experienced editors who know nothing of the topic are controlling the article as if they own it. See WP:OWN, WP:GANG, WP:TAGTEAM. None of you administrators have done anything to help that newcomer other than block him. Perhaps you could acknowledge my relative WP:COMPETENCE and follow the principle of WP:DONTBITE. And please don’t say that I was offered a mentor to guide me. This guy had attacked me repeatedly without any knowledge of the topic, and rather than wanting to resolve this article, wanted to take me on a journey following him around Wikipedia to see him edit articles I would probably know nothing about. I mean WP:WTF? Having had 3 days to look over the rules I have seen that most of what experienced editors claim against me are followed by WP:XXXX, yet they are not in line with the actual rules they quote. Once I looked up the rules I saw that they were often acting totally against the rule they were quoting. Fortunately an administrator has taken up my points as he knows the rules and knows that the comments against me were false. Since the administrator cannot easily be blocked the people that blocked me have had to actually communicate with him. Having seen them do that, they now agree to my points about the article. This only happened when those points came from an administrator, not me. I now see the WP:TAGTEAM that blocked me twice have been defeated by an administrator. With your help though they were able to block me twice, directly against the principles of WP:BOLD and WP:BITE. The debate about the accuracy of one source in the article has been the same for the administrator as it was for me. Yet when this opinion came from a newcomer it was dismissed and I was blocked. When it came from an administrator, who is not even as WP:COMPETENT as me, it was listened to and agreed with. So well done for biting the newcomer and now I am leaving Wikipedia. See WP:DONTBITE. Rather than contributing to an article I know a lot about, it will remain with those people who have no knowledge of the topic, who misrepresent the topic, misquote a secondary source, give it undue weight WP:UNDUE. They have been repeatedly accused of bias, abuse and destructive editing over a period of time by a number of other editors. Just look up on the talk page and you will see this. My original post was added to their comments and Ronz kindly moved it down to the bottom so that I seemed like a lone voice in the wilderness, rather than yet another person with concerns about this article. See WP:GANG. 86.93.139.223 (talk) 18:04, 13 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.93.139.223 (talk)

Well, this is nice. IP, I'm not sure if you're still watching, or if you're gone for good, but I can tell you that my sole words on the matter were along the lines of "nout to do with me". I'm pretty good with not biting, given that I spend so long working with new editors, but if you think there's anything I could have done differently (besides getting involved in a dispute on a topic that I know nothing about and have no interest in, with a user who appears to be edit warring against consensus), I'd be glad to hear it. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:23, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I have to feel for this user as I have and had the same bullying pulled on me, with the same article. There seems to be a gang of them, ad they user names are reported frequently around the external Internet that behave in this manner. If you create a beginer edit they revert it, usually with no edit history comment. If you attempt to replace it, figuring it was a vandal (troll elsewhere) and your edit was correct, you get a nasty warning on your user talk page saying roughly "you can't do that and you will get your butt kicked if you do it again". If you persist in editing a few dozen other times, eventually somebody will tell you about BRD, so you try it. You go to the talk page and post your opinion only to be told by some of the same bully team "opinions don't matter here", followed by more cold warnings about being a vandal or other policy, du jour. Next time one attempts to edit and supplies sources for statements by professional people only to be reverted with "not a notable source" or "we don't use primary sources to contradict secondary sources". If you attempt to complaint you get another editor giving you a ban on your talk page and telling you you violated one of the 4,567 WP rules. Sometimes you would attempt to expose or list some of the bias and how it doesn't appear to apply to these bully team members only to get banned again for WP:BLP. I didn't know article rules could apply to editors personalities behing an imaginary tough edit name, disguise. Last time I attempted to disclose insults on my person and copied them to my talk page the nasty comments not only disappeared from mine and their pages, but the edit histories vanished, as well. I didn't know this was an option and appears quite deceptive as the wikipedia system seems to keep logs indefinitely. Apparently not for the few dishonest members of the bully team. I laid a complaint against one of this bully team and all I got was WP:Boomerang threats and WP:Stale and WP:BLP warnings from the offending bully, I complained about. I feel I am still suffereing from that as I get regularly visited by one of the same bully team, who hacks up my user page until I complain and then I get banned for WP:BLP or WP:3RR because they coud detect I was thinking about reverting one more time. Another good one is "lack of collaboration" on my own user talk page. My conclusion is that this bully team exist to attack IP editors on a fear and predjudice basis. This seems to be the usual psychology, on the Internet in forums and real life, unfortunately. People fear the newbie and the unknown, attacking to rid themselves the unknown. Most of the protection mechanisms are not available to IP editrs and are unknown. The more I educate myself on the ways of WP the more I realize they ren't not applied to IPs equally. I have been ridiculed so many times here I have toignore most of it, now. /rant off LOL 99.251.114.120 (talk) 18:30, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

WormTT. It always appears to be edit waring and lack of consensus when a WP:GANG work against someone. Without any knowledge of the issue, you could have looked and see that I responded to many requests for more information and each time this was seen as me denying consensus. You could have looked up and seen that many people have had the same experience on this article with these people. Since many people have had that issue you could have looked further into this. Since those attempting to improve the article are not working as a WP:GANG they turn up individually, make an effort to improve the article, then get attacked by the WP:TAGTEAM. So they give up and move on as I have done. So we need someone above them that can read the page and see the many complaints against them for this action, and the way they twist the system to make it appear that they are just looking for consensus. I don't know your status in Wikipedia, but you seemed like a well reasoned guy from your posts. So I thought you might invest some time in reading what other people, not me, have said about the WP:TAGTEAM on this article and done something about it. Anyway I am off again not coming back so you know that your lack of action, which I have seen you can take, is part of the reason I don't believe in Wikipedia and its insane rules. 86.93.139.223 (talk) 21:37, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks so much for coming back to me. Indeed, I could have looked into the case, but since Wikipedia is a volunteer effort and I have more than enough to be getting on with, helping new users, working in areas that interest me and so on, I would need to expend an inordinate amount of time looking into an area that I have no interest. It is possible that it's a gang against one, or it's possible that it's one against consensus. Both situations do look the same, as you say. I'd have to understand the topic to be able to tell which is which, and it's just not a topic that I want to understand.

So, if lack of action is my only fault, then I will accept that fault as mine. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:RfA reform 2011/Minimum requirement

This has been stagnating for too long so when I saw something similar mentioned at Wikipedia talk:RFA I took the liberty of making a suggestion. I have no idea how an RFC is started or anything, but maybe when you get back from your Wikibreak we can get the ball rolling on this. Ryan Vesey Review me! 03:00, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd also like to pitch in in anyway I can. --SKATER ^{Is Back} 03:01, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been looking at this too. I want to get all the statistics up to date before I move this one on to be honest, I've done the "success" ones, just need to do the failures, which I was planning to do one evening towards the end of the week. Other than that, if either of you want to double check the other stats (essays, other wikipedias etc), I'd appreciate that. After that, it's just a case of getting the summary together nicely, and putting the RfC up towards the end of the month. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:34, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes, and if either of you are good with graphs, pretty pictures are nice... have fun! Worm^TT · (talk) 09:35, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
	I noticed that the idea of starting an adoption-school is actually yours (If I m not mistaken). Also this was your brainchild which was an great idea. These 2 were really good things that you started so for you efforts... →¡TheSpecialUser!^Talk_{Contributions} 07:29, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Actually I think Worm pinched the idea from Hersfold but don't let me spoil your fun. :-) Rcsprinter (tell me stuff) 19:55, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much for both. I did indeed nab a lot from Hersfold but I think mine is quite a long way from his now, lots of changes. It's also great to see how far it's travelled, lots of editors using it these days. As for Request a nomination, I'm very pleased with that, to this day! Worm^TT · (talk) 08:40, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

4th Liverpool Meetup

Hi there. It looks like it's just me and you who've signed up to the Liverpool meetup next week. I'm always up for a pint or six, but I was wondering whether we should cancel. What do you think? Cheers, Bazonka (talk) 12:57, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm happy to postpone/cancel - I'm sure we'll all meet up again soon! Worm^TT · (talk) 08:29, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

There are more names on the list now, so it looks like it's back on. See you there? Bazonka (talk) 19:27, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

mentorship

can you adopt me for mentorship please? I am very bad with wikicode and want to be an admin. I am drt2012 (talk) 19:28, 19 May 2012 (UTC).

I don't think this is going to be very likely, Dannyboy is currently giving personal attacks to Logan and is on the edge of being blocked. Not at all admin-like behaviour. Rcsprinter (talkin' to me?) 20:55, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Correction: blocked as I typed that message. Rcsprinter (yak) 20:55, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

So I see. Not a lost cause though, I'll drop a message on his page. By the way, this wasn't vandalism. You should have left an edit summary. Logan didn't need to, it was his talk page. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:54, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

(I do agree with the revert by the way, there's no need for Logan to have that on his page, you did the right thing, I just think adding an edit summary would have helped a lot!) Worm^TT · (talk) 07:55, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

You're back!

Nice to see you! Ryan Vesey Review me! 07:44, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Indeed I am, and thank you very much for the welcome! Got a lot to catch up on though!

Worm^TT · (talk) 07:45, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

It is just like me to beg you to do something as soon as you come back but...

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Afranet was actually one of the first pages I reviewed at WP:AFC. I felt that while some work was needed, it was ready for the mainspace so I attempted to move it. I discovered that the page Afranet has been salted. I made an unprotection request at WP:RPP which was eventually declined. In it, the comment was made that it should be brought to WP:DRV. It is currently sitting at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2012 May 18 but normal discussion is not occurring. It was even suggested that the discussion be speedily closed as not in the scope of deletion review. That is what I thought but I was told that deletion review is the only remaining venue. I would really like to see the article moved to article space because the author clearly wrote it with an encyclopedic goal in mind. Do you have any idea what I should do? Ryan Vesey Review me! 08:03, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

And if I am this confused by the issue, imagine how confused the new editor is. Ryan Vesey Review me! 08:04, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

The editor whose speedy close comment caused me to come here has since stricken the comment so I believe I am alright for the time being. It is just a sit and wait game. I won't receive your reply for a while as it has been hours since I made the decision to go to sleep and I am beginning to lose trust in my ability to continue to function at a normal capacity. Ryan Vesey Review me! 08:22, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, that's interesting. Looking at the deleted version of the page, it's actually pretty similar to the current version, though with more inline references. Having said that, the majority of the sources are self published, so that's not great. In fact, the rest aren't actually covering the subject in depth, but are facts from comparison websites, or charters. For example, there's only a one word mention in the UN document, and "For internet access, a common route is to buy a prepaid card ... a popular card is from ParsOnline, Afranet, Neda" is hardly coverage at all. Yet, it's used as a source for a misleading sentence "According to United Nation's report on Iran, Afranet is one of the major VOIP service providers and Internet Service Providers." (The ISP bit is from a comparson site). Quite simply, the article is designed to be promotional, and there's little or no evidence of notability - which is exactly what it was deleted for. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:27, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Adoption

Do you remember I once came here asking if you would adopt me, and I got adopted by Demiurge1000? Anyway, I wanted to say hi because I changed my username from Tomtomn00. --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 08:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Thine Antique Pen! I did notice, I've got your adoption page watchlisted and thought it was odd that the name had changed! But thanks for letting me know. I hope you feel you're learning a lot from Demiurge! Worm^TT · (talk) 08:13, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I am!

(by the way, see this for my name explained). --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 08:14, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

WP:References

Click cite, then choose your template, and fill in as many fields as you like

Hi Worm. Can you tell me if a magazine would be referenced as a newspaper or a book? I am unsure if it would have an WP:ISBN number and instead be used as a newspaper article. Thanks Jenova20 08:45, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, I generally go with either journal or newspaper for a magazine. As long as you've got all the information there, it's not the end of the world what you have it under. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:08, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Brilliant. And can you eplain in simple terms how i reference in such a way? Thanks Dave Jenova20 09:15, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, if {{cite journal}} or {{cite newspaper}} aren't quite enough for you, I use the Ref toolbar. It's pretty easy, and available every time you hit edit. Just press the Cite button, (as shown in the image) and then select a template from the drop down. Ta-da! Now, must get that moon, and put it on a stick.. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:27, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Very nicely done! Thanks a lot Dave! Jenova20 10:10, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

User:Androzaniamy

I have had your mentor page watchlisted ever since you began to mentor her. In your absence, I thought it would've been helpful if I tried to give an answer but I didn't anticipate such a hostile response. I have a habit of always trying to get to the root of the problem so naturally I tried to figure out why she was being so hostile. Eventually I came to a point where I felt I was making things worse and backed off. I will respect both of your requests of not answering on your adoption page. Not to cause drama or anything but, I must say that her response to my answer was hurtful and it emotionally stirred me up.—cyberpower ^Chat_{Limited Access} 12:55, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

On this, have a look at the note I've left her on her talk page. You did not deserve to be talked to the way you were, and certainly did nothing wrong. Perhaps you pushed it a little further than you needed to, but I am not holding that against you. I'd actually like to thank both you and Nobody Ent for trying to help, even if it wasn't needed. Worm^TT · (talk) 12:59, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

On one note, I backed off when I felt I was pushing it. On the other, you're welcome.—cyberpower ^Chat_{Limited Access} 13:46, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Thought I'd poke my nose in as well. I've hesitated to post on her talk page, sensibly so in hindsight. I've had it watched since she made an appearance on ANI. I was going to drop a note about what I'd been reading on her talk page but seeing as you've taken her back in hand, there's nothing I need to say. At this point though, I will say that it may be time to don your admin hat and suggest that Cyberpower and Dream Focus stop fighting on her talk page. That happened previously and she was quite upset about it. Blackmane (talk) 21:36, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'm concerned because:

I don't really think she realizes how close she was to an indef before you bailed her out with the adoption -- if she ends up back on AN I think she's done.
Dream Focus's contributions to her talk page are likely to egg her on into an error. I've left them a note but I don't think it took. Nobody Ent 23:02, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I think a lot of people are watching, which is not a problem, but I can understand why she'd be upset by it. She's been under a lot more scrutiny than most new editors, and whether or not she was close to an indef at the time she has made progress. Her attitude over the past week has gone down hill, but the moment she talked to me she seemed reasonable, so I think this is as much my fault for not being there as anything else. I've said my bit, hopefully we'll be able to move on with something a little more useful. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:13, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

The thing I don't think she's realising is that eventually she'll be let off her leash and if this is how she behaves while on a relatively loose leash, she's going to end up in a whole load of strife. Blackmane (talk) 08:31, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Maybe. She's learning fast, I've got faith :) Worm^TT · (talk) 08:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Worm, I perhaps shouldn't have posted on Amy's page after she'd asked me not to, but it was in the flow of a discussion and seemed appropriate. I hate the idea of being forbidden from editing in any part of Wikipedia, so I'd like to ask you to ask Amy to agree that I can make occasional constructive comments on her talk page. I won't ask her on her own page, for obvious reasons. I've taken an interest in her editing career because I was involved in quite early conversations (and upset her accidentally by including a censored version of a non-naughty word on her page, in the course of a reasonable discussion). I might even accidentally post on her page if I come across something of hers while stub-sorting and use a Twinkle function which does an automatic user talk page message, without even noticing it's her that it's going to. I'm not certain whether "editing someone's talk page when they've asked you not to" is within any reasonable definition of "harassment", but I'd hate to cross that line. PamD 08:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Possibly not the best time. I'd rather let the dust settle a bit before asking something like that. I don't think anything you've done (or would do) would actually wander into harassment, from an outside perspective - but for the time being I would prefer to respect Amy's wishes on the matter. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:39, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

PamD, maybe for the time being, anything you come up with you can just drop Worm a line? Blackmane (talk) 08:49, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

RfA advice

Worm, can you comment on my potential to be an admin? Cglenn3932 (talk) 16:57, 21 May 2012 (UTC)cglenn3932 moved to its own thread for clarity's sake Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:02, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi Cglenn, I just took a look at your edits and I would at this time advice you NOT to run for an RFA at this time. You only have 75 edits to the project, and while edits aren't everything you do need sufficient amount to prove that you know what is going on and the relevant policies. For example, I myself have over 6,500 edits to the project and I would still be considered on the low side of experience to the encyclopedia. My advice to you would be to keep doing what you're doing, and just hang in there until you understand all of the policies. If I had to put it in a time frame It would take about 8-12 months if not before before the community would possibly vote yes to your request. Regards and happy editing!--SKATER ^{Is Back} 18:37, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Nobody can comment on your potential to be an admin Cglenn3932, as you've only been here five minutes. Malleus Fatuorum 18:49, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

To be fair, his account has contribs going back to 2006. Whether those contribs are helpful for a request for adminship is another issue... Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:56, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

You take me too literally; five minutes in terms of experience. Malleus Fatuorum 19:01, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah. Yep, that's probably fair enough. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:31, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I think the people above have it right. You're certainly not ready to be an administrator at the moment, it's not something I'd recommend you even think about. With only 75 edits (no editor has passed with under 3000 in the past few years), no work in administrator areas, I think you should spend a bit more time getting used to the encyclopedia, perhaps adding more content - there's lots to do out there. I'm not saying you won't ever become an admin, but you're a long way off at the moment. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:20, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

There's a guy just in the news who reached 1 million edits at a rate of 350 a day. By measuring against him you've only about 5 hours of edits. I've reverted vandals with more edits.

Put your 6 years of knowledge to use Cglenn and do up some articles that tickle your fancy (never really got that expression), there should be loads after so long! Sorry to butt in! Jenova20 08:27, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend anyone do 1 million edits! Quality, not quantity counts for everything...Worm^TT · (talk) 08:29, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

That was my point of course, that 1 million minor edits are nothing to 1 million huuuuge edits that create good articles right "off the bat" and make a noticeable improvement to the Wikipedia. 75 edits is not anywhere near enough though to be an admin and it would be like a 5 year old giving life advice to a 70 year old OAP. Thanks Jenova20 09:26, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

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not necessary

It's not necessary to ask me to stay off a page in your user space 9 days after I said I would Nobody Ent 09:20, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

I posted that there yesterday, when I got back from my holiday. I then stupidly deleted it, but restored it today. All I was doing was making things explicit there. Perhaps not necessary in that you weren't going to post there, but necessary so that it's clear how I feel about other editors posting there. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:26, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Second Opinion

Alter Eco [1] - i fail to see how an image of the founder of a company adds anything to a stub with not a single source, except one from the same company. Can you back me up on this point (with your opinion) or am i overreacting a tad? Thanks Jenova20 14:32, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

It's pretty much a no biggie - I'd suggest rather than re-reverting, you should have taken it to the talk page. Your other edit, rewording, looked good. Worm^TT · (talk) 14:41, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

I posted on his page after he reverted as there was more chance of him seeing it there. I'm a member of Wikiproject unsourced articles (or something along those lines) and so i work on things randomly from time to time. That article read like an advert though. Thanks Jenova20 15:02, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

If you've started discussion, I don't think you've done anything wrong :) Worm^TT · (talk) 15:05, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks =] Jenova20 15:07, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

...Trying now to add a reference to Almond jelly (possibly of interest to the Bacon Icecream wizard?) but my edit was blocked by the Spam Filter??? Why is it a blacklisted site as it says and so i can't use it as a minor ref? You can see the link yourself by combining these 2 - [http://www.ehow.][com/how_4621475_almond-jelly-dessert.html] Thanks Jenova20 15:39, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Jenova, I forgot to reply! Sorry! eHow is a blacklisted site, because it's user generated and not reliably sourced - it's quite simply not reliable in any way shape or form. If that's your only ref, it's no better than "a guy in the pub told me". Worm^TT · (talk) 07:48, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Reading the way you worded that just made me realize that Wikipedia's reliable source requirements aren't nearly as strict as I thought. I remember being in discussion (or writing a paper for school for that matter) and any .com source was mentioned as being equivalent to "I heard it in the hallway". Ryan Vesey Review me! 07:52, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

From a certain point of view, yes, that's certainly true, any .com can be bought and have anything published. We do a little further than that though, looking into the site, whether they are editorially reviewed or user generated and so on... But yes, we're not that strict really. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:00, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Fair point and thanks for the reply. I didn't know it was user-generated. Thanks again Jenova20 08:41, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Wikicode

Could you help me with wikicode please?. I find that whenever I try to learn it, I always forget. I appreciate your patience. Also, why does wikicode need to be needlessly complicated when wysiwyg is clearly the easiest way to go? I am the one and only drt2012 (talk) 20:26, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

I read somewhere once that a wysiwyg method of editing would be rolled out by the Wikimedia foundation sometime this year. I can't really remember where I saw it though. Ryan Vesey Review me! 20:32, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) One of the reasons I've seen used to defend wikicode is the resolution of edit-conflicts. Basically, if you edit-conflict with another editor, wikicode makes it easy to just copy and paste your old response in. A WYSIWYG editor would lose a lot of the sometimes complicated formatting when it is copy-pasted. In general, it's much easier to copy the wikicode source while maintaining full fidelity than it would be if a WYSIWYG system were used exclusively.

On a more historical level, though, it's my impression (and only my impression) that Wikipedia was founded and populated primarily by people with a technical bent, for whom wikicode isn't difficult to understand or get a hang of. Over time, those technically-inclined editors became the "power users" on Wikipedia, and since they didn't feel the need for more newbie-friendly means of editing, it didn't get done. Ten years later, I've still seen this attitude in some of the reactions to our work at the Teahouse. As a technically-minded person myself, the wikicode doesn't bother me, so I can sympathize with that to some extent; it's the age-old debate of "power and flexibility" vs. "learning-curve and usability", and technically-minded people will almost always come down on the power side. But at the same time, I can also see how wikicode would turn off many a new editor (which is why I try to help out at the Teahouse in what little ways that I can.)

PS: The Teahouse is a good place to ask questions about things like wikicode! Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 20:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Good answers chaps. As for how to use wikicode, have you tried running through the tutorial? It's pretty useful. I also have something in my adoption course about how to edit, if that's any help, feel free to use it. Worm^TT · (talk) 14:35, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

History merge

Hey Worm, could you do a history merge if it isn't too difficult? I feel like the edits in this series of diffs should be placed between these edits. Ryan Vesey Review me! 05:49, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

If I'm honest, I wouldn't know how. As far as I'm concerned, history merges involve deleting something, moving something on top and then undeleting the original... so I to do move a group of diffs (not the whole page)... I'd have to do a bit of work and thinking. I think I need to play with something a little easier before I attack something like that! Worm^TT · (talk) 14:33, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Okay, do you think AN would be an appropriate place to ask for assistance with that or should I just seek out another admin? Ryan Vesey Review me! 15:32, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, not sure which. If you know a competent admin, go for it, otherwise I'd suggest the Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Worm^TT · (talk) 15:34, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. Ryan Vesey Review me! 15:35, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

My home town

My home town, Windom, MN, is currently a start-class article so I decided I wanted to improve it to a B-class at the minimum. To do so, I'll probably need to remove a lot of content from the education section using the summary style. Here's my question, do you think it would be better to create a page on Windom Public Schools or Windom Area Middle/High School. Due to (I originally wrote that "do tue" is that like a reverse spoonerism or something?) the nature of our High School, I would already be writing about grades 4-12 which is what makes me lean towards doing an entire Windom Public Schools page and making a mention of our elementary school. Ryan Vesey Review me! 14:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd suggest going for the entire page and mention your school. It's how I'd expect the article to end up, so might as well target it from the start. good luck with it all! Worm^TT · (talk) 14:27, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Just as a note, Windom Public Schools is literally two schools. The High/School and an elementary school, but I'll work on that. Ryan Vesey Review me! 14:31, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there's a lot of people who will disagree with you... just do things the best you can, and I'm sure it'll be great. Worm^TT · (talk) 14:37, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Now that I think of it, I'm probably going to create it at User:Ryan Vesey/Windom Area Schools as that is the actual name of the school system. I may consider Independent School District 177 or Windom Public School System. I originally just intended this to be a short little article so there was something to move a lot of the information at Windom, Minnesota#Education to, but then I remembered that our previous middle school was sold for $1. That sounds like a pretty good DYK hook. Ryan Vesey Review me! 15:08, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Indeed it does. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Worm^TT · (talk) 15:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

My problem

I realized that my biggest problem on Wikipedia (and in a more minor sense in life) is that I am on everybody's side. The problem with being on everybody's side means that I end up on nobody's side. Ryan Vesey Review me! 00:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

You know, I think that if I was on nobody's side, I would end up on everybody's side. Quite ironic. Ryan Vesey Review me! 00:59, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

You're on my side? Awesome! Nobody Ent 03:06, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Haha! Nice response! Ryan Vesey Review me! 03:10, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm the same. Well, actually, I'm the opposite. I'm the ultimate devil's advocate, I always see the other point of view. That means that I'm not really on anyone's side, something that I'm sure my adoptees find disconcerting. Still, it works for me on wikipedia, and in life - you've just got to accept who you are. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:51, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

As I was out learning to use a ride-on lawnmower today I realized I was sort of running around like a chicken with its head cut off screaming at the other chickens with their heads cut off. Eitherway, there is nothing that could get me to line up on either side in that particular argument. Ryan Vesey Review me! 07:55, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I get the feeling you're talking about a specific argument? You might have to point me towards it. Otherwise, chickens without heads (which can live for years) can't scream :P No mouths... Worm^TT · (talk) 08:06, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

The whole Malleus thing, while I find myself to be the least partisan commenter, I guess I have commented on it, or a result of it at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Avicennasis, WP:ANI, User talk:KoshVorlon, User talk:Malleus Fatuorum, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement, User talk:It Is Me Here, and probably some other areas. Ryan Vesey Review me! 08:15, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, I doubt you mean the whole Malleus thing, which has such a history it's difficult to review. All I will say on that is that if you do get involved, don't assume you know the history or believe anything that anyone says. If you want to know the history, look into it yourself. And yes, that will take a long long time :P Worm^TT · (talk) 08:18, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

More like the recent Malleus thing. I've been involved with it in the past, so I've got a bit of context. I'm certainly aware of his editing habits. I've just been trying to quiet it down more than anything-just don't know if replying is a good way of quieting something down. On one hand it adds a comment to something that could have stopped, on the other hand it could stop a potentially harsh rebuttal. Ryan Vesey Review me! 08:22, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd suggest you don't reply for the most part. I keep out of it myself - people don't actually want a solution, they want to complain. They're seeing the situation as black and white, Malleus is perfect or impossible. He's just this guy, you know?. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:30, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Good point, my reply gives them a reason to reply. If I stop replying they'll lose interest. The whole bully in the schoolyard thing. Ryan Vesey Review me! 08:33, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back from vacation

Click cite, then choose your template, and fill in as many fields as you like

Hi Dave, It's Rich and I hope you remember me. I am the newbie that was trying to add a space to my name right before you took a leave. Well I started a new account under this alias name and I have been doing lots of reading on Wikipedia P & P.

Is it o.k. to choose an editor, or administrator that you enjoy working with and calling on them when questions arrive? The reason I ask is the little work I've done with you has been encouraging to me and I feel comfortable calling on you.

While I'm hear at your impressive user/talk page, I do have a question to ask you about a first project of mine. A friend of mine who is a well know professional skateboarder by the name of John Rattray has a weak bio page and I am equipped with all his information to use in making it appear better and factual, but also help his fans know more about this great Scottish skateboard legend. This would be my first edit and I want to do it correctly for John, but there are little things I still don't know how to do and to be honest I'm a little nervous.

Do I need to use a table to designate an area for links that prove the facts I have? Should I add photos, which by the way I still don't know how to really add yet? Actually, there are several little questions and steps I have as a rookie that I just wish I could watch an experienced master like you do. I don't want to blow it, especially on a living person bio, so I thought I would approach you first.

Sorry for all the questions, hopefully you can answer most of them the best you can. I really do appreciate your work hear and I hope to learn as much as I can from you.

Okay Dave, that's it for now and I hope to talk to you soon.

Bye for now my friend,

Rich Vansman1 (talk) 07:08, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Hey Rich! Sorry I've not been around at this formative time for you, I do seem to take the most awkward holidays ;) I'm glad you've come to me with questions, it can save some disappointment when you realise we have an odd way of doing things. I've got some very helpful people always willing to lend a hand on this page, so if it's not me who answers, don't worry too much. Oh, also, I've dropped new welcome message on your talk page, with a link to the TEAHOUSE - a place to ask questions. The great thing about the teahouse is that it's such a new project that everyone's really enthusiastic and questions are answered really quickly... so if I'm likely to be away from desk (out of UK office hours) you're welcome to ask there.

As to your questions - Yes, it's perfectly alright for you to ask questions and buddy up with people. I pride myself in enjoying work with new users and am always willing to offer advice, you can have a look through my talk page archives to see the variety of people I've helped. If you feel comfortable posting here, post away, I don't believe there's any such thing as a stupid question

Now, on to the tough part, John Rattray. I should warn you first off that you've got quite a challange ahead of you, because you're working on a living person biography, we're rather strict with the rules, and because you know him, you've got to be extra careful making sure you write the article from a neutral point of view - it can't be promotional. That said, I think you'll be able to do it, I've got faith!

So, firstly talking about references. I'm glad you've realised that references are essential, and I hope you've noticed that we focus on independent third party commentary (no self published sources!). The reference list actually gets automatically created, if you use inline citations. So, in the wikicode, if you were to type <ref>Your reference</ref>, it will add "Your reference" to the list of references at the bottom of the page. There's some tricks that allow you to use the same reference more than once too, all explained at the inline citations page. You might notice I suggested to Jenova above that he use the citation tool - I've included the same image here for you.

As for images, you need to be auto-confirmed for that, (which means having made 10 edits and been here 4 days) so let's come back to it. There's a lot of copyright rules you need to keep in mind, but I'll take you through them too. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

AFC review

Someone on IRC asked about the review of Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Public finance mechanism. I find it a bit borderline, but I'm leaning towards accepting it. I feel a bit too tired to make a good decision. Care to take a look and tell me what you think? Ryan Vesey Review me! 08:19, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I get the feeling that it's not quite there. Is it a international term, something that's used globally? It looks like original research full of buzzwords to me... Worm^TT · (talk) 08:27, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Your page

Your page regarding me is more than a bit stalkerish. I politely request that you get rid of it. If you like to compile my activity, take it offline. Keepscases (talk) 06:11, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Of course. I compiled the list to see if you were actually abusing the request for adminship process, as a number of editors had said, and since it's pretty clear from it that you werent, I've since persuaded a few using that list. I've now deleted it, but should you need a copy, please do not hesitate to ask. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:25, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I thank you sincerely. Keepscases (talk) 07:44, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

And I can but apologise, there was no need for me to keep it on wiki, it was insensitive. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:06, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

It's all good. Good day to you sir. Keepscases (talk) 09:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Bacon ice cream

I notice that the PR of bacon ice cream closed today. I probably won't keep the article on my watchlist, but if you want to move my comments somewhere else so you can update your progress, just drop a note on my talk page and let me know where. If not, it was still a fun article to review, and I hope my comments were helpful. Acdixon ^{(talk · contribs)} 13:27, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm still quite focussed on Doom Bar at the moment, so will keep bacon ice cream on the back burner for now. I'm sure I'll get to it sooner or later though, and as I say I really appreciate your comments. I'll make sure I give you a heads up when I start work on it, so you can either re-add it to your watchlist or pop by periodically. Worm^TT · (talk) 13:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Acdixon can you place them on the article talk page if WormTT hasn't already asked you to put them somewhere else.

This way they're available to more viewers who may want to help out. Thanks Jenova20 14:26, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Good idea Jenova, I've transcluded in the same way the GA is. Worm^TT · (talk) 14:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I've added collapse boxes around the GA and peer review discussion so the talk page is easier to navigate. Ryan Vesey Review me! 17:23, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Happy days! =] Thanks Jenova20 17:40, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Deletion tests in your adoption program

I was looking though the tests in the adoption program and one of them was User:Worm That Turned/Adopt/Deletion/Test/Q5. I said I would add an A7 tag and you replied that you would use A1. Now that I look at it, I am almost certain it should be tagged as a G3 hoax. On a side note, I cannot believe I would have PRODed the fourth one. Facepalm Maybe I was under the impression that everything had to be deleted. The sources you used in your question aren't even used in the actual article Plymouth Blitz. I'll probably add them sometime, it's only start class. Ryan Vesey Review me! 01:27, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Your signature

Hi, Worm That Turned. With my browser settings (black background), I have difficulty reading your signature. Would you consider adjusting it please? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:42, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Don't use a black background. Signatures are to conform to majority, not minority.—cyberpower ^Chat_Offline 11:50, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Rubbish cyberpower, it's a perfectly reasonable request. Black backgrounds are great for reducing eye strain and can be used to create great contrast. Axl, I'll work on some alternatives on Monday. Worm^TT · (talk) 15:15, 27 May 2012 (UTC)