Simonfj

Open Education Declaration

This talk is is respnse to the deletion of this article for copyright violation by Hut 8.5. See deletion log [[1]] 19:25, 8 December 2007 Hut 8.5 (Talk | contribs) deleted "Open Education Declaration" ‎ (copyvio of http://www.capetowndeclaration.org/front-page/read-the-declaration)

Yes, I know Wikipedia is soon going to be migrating to a Creative Commons license, but until that happens the text can't be included in Wikipedia. Even if that wasn't the case, the text would have been deleted through some other mechanism since it wasn't any kind of encyclopedia article and Wikipedia is not the place for any kind of campaigning, as I'm sure Jimmy Wales will know. Hut 8.5 21:08, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Hut,

Let me get this right. Even if, in the meantime, I get the guys at [2] to put a link to the GNU Free Documentation License, the founder of Wikipedia doesn't have the right to put a document (article) he has signed, whose core aim it is to further the Foundation's aims, on the site he set up?--Simonfj (talk) 21:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

If they license the text under the GFDL then it will not be deleted straight away as a copyright violation. However, Wikipedia is a neutral encyclopedia, and including text campaigning for anything is a violation of WP:SOAP, and this would likely result in the page being deleted in an articles for deletion discussion. Note that Wikipedia's policy of neutrality was strongly championed by Jimmy Wales, and I seriously doubt he is going to break it. There are other websites the Wikimedia Foundation can use to express support for the petition other than Wikipedia. Hut 8.5 21:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again Hut, Just keeping the thread together. I'm using our exchange as an illustration of how conversations can't be followed (by newbies) due to the separation of 'inputs' and 'outputs'. If I'm missing something about how they're kept together here would you let me know. I'm taking it that OEDeclaration can be undeleted (somewhere) as and when this gets to the Trustees.

Just made an entry to the NPOV page [3] Please don't feel I'm in any way having a go at you. But if Jimmy can't campaign for something around here, then this NPOV policy is obviously blocking a lot of other people from reintepreting their old fashioned ideas about how 'policy' is meant to be implemented.--Simonfj (talk) 22:47, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Do you actually have anything from Jimmy Wales asking you to post the text on Wikipedia, or are you assuming because he's signed it that he wants it on Wikipedia? Hut 8.5 10:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

No, if I had've I would hve put it as a reference on the article. Even so, even kings have to obey the laws that stand. I'm assuming that Jimmy, as one of the signatories, will be thinking along the same lines as others who attended [4]. who point out that these kind of docs, unless they are hosted on a global library, where they can be edited, never become living docs. They never become encyclopedic because they aren't seen to be shared nicely. [5]

I could have referred to a Budapest Declaration, which this one is based upon (as Philipp says), and made the article about DeclarationS. But I'm using this as an example of why, because there is nowhere a New article writer can put a doc up (in an open space) and gather a constituency, newbies are presented with a deletion notice which, if they are not thick skinned (like me), will frighten them off. It's either that or a conversation is split between two users discussion pages, like wot we're suffering, and no one can read how NOT to be made to be seen as stupid.

The problem is that we are now at the stage in Wikipedia's development where we are beginning to synethesize similar docs. Remote groups are wanting to read off the same page rether than duplicating "me too" articles. So we need to improve the communications process, and use more relevant comms tools.

It's a bit much to expect, when you're patrolling [[6]], that you haven't a way to better orientate a newbie, especially after you see the need to shoot their firstborn. So let's see if this conversation, like the proposal I've just sent to Sue Gardner, doesn't act as a catalyst for improving the way we share our knowledge. Merry Xmas. --Simonfj (talk) 21:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Getting Orientated

I've just edited a comment you made at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Proposed new Admin noticeboard. The comment tore up a discussion, even tore up a comment by another editor. I have moved it to the bottom of the section. If it was not related to the discussion about a new Admin noticeboard, it should be moved to the bottom of the page. Aecis^Brievenbus 22:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

In response to your recent comment at the Village pump, it may be helpful to provide you with a few links on what Wikipedia is about and how it works:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style
• Your first article
• New contributors' help page

If you have any questions about contributing to Wikipedia, feel free to ask them on my talk page. Aecis^Brievenbus 08:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

IRC

Sure it is. Just point it to http://tools.wikimedia.de/~bjelleklang/pjirc/index.php, and users will be prompted to type the username of their choice. Bjelleklang - talk Bug Me 15:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Wikiblue

G'day simon

It's been nice to interact over at wikback - and I've followed some of your efforts in communications from the sidelines - it was also great to see you've noticed 'NotTheWikipediaWeekly' which is nascent, but proving quite fun, and it might just work! - With that in mind, I thought I'd let you know that we're having another conversation tomorrow at 00.00 UTC (March 26th) - I'm vaguely recalling that you may be in oz too - which makes it a wednesday late morning - 11.00am.... If you are free it would be great to have you, so please do consider signing up over at Wikipedia:NotTheWikipediaWeekly - and if you can't make the time, perhaps you might have a moment to pop over just a few of your key ideas over at my talk page, because I'd like to mention them, if that's ok..... cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 02:17, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Simon,

and I thought I'd let you know that there's another 'real world' conversation in the pipeline for tomorrow (see Wikipedia:NotTheWikipediaWeekly for more details) - and Jay Walsh from the foundation will be coming along - which I think is great! - it'd be very cool if you could come along too - otherwise, do feel free to sum up some of your ideas / initiatives (or point me in their direction) - and I'll try and bring them up too! cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 03:35, 31 March 2008 (UTC)