User talk:Eewilson/Sandbox/List of campanulid families

Notes

• Off the top of my head, I recall when I was doing List of plant family names with etymologies that some of my sources are positive that Brunia was named for Brun and others were positive that it was named for Brown ... you have a note in the table saying "what is this source for" ... I think I had to list more sources than usual for that one. - Dank (push to talk) 21:52, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Christenhusz, Fay & Chase (2017)

@Dank: Happy New Year, Dan! I hope you're doing well. I thought I'd start listing some things I need from Christenhusz, Fay & Chase (2017). Please include the page number on which you find the info. You can just list it here. Vernacular names for families

• Aquifo­liaceae 588 Holly family
• Araliaceae 629 Ivy family
• Caprifo­liaceae 621 Honeysuckle family
• Cardiopteridaceae 586 Churnwood family
• Menyan­thaceae 598 Bogbean family
• Phyllonomaceae 586 Flowering-leaf family

I will have other questions, but I just want to get these out of the way. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 16:37, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

John and I were just looking at this list in your userspace this morning, and we're very impressed. Would you be interested in joining the current FLC nomination, List of lilioid families, as a co-nommer, before it gets any more reviews? I'm suggesting that based on my guess that you're going to want to make some changes to that list to sync it up with this list ... and if so, that's more of a co-nom role than a reviewer role. Besides, for this much work, you should certainly be sharing the credit ... I'd feel bad if you weren't. And, whether you're co-nomming or not, I have a question: I see that you don't have a column for "Description and uses" ... were you going to add that later, or would you rather go without it (and why?) - Dank (push to talk) 17:19, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you [guys?] for the complement, and thanks for the refs! Do you think I've done enough work on lilioids to be a co-nominator? I mean, if you want to, that's fine. But unless I've blanked it out, I didn't think I had and was intentionally kind of stearing clear of it until I could step in and give my own review. Which would be more valuable? If you want me to be a part of making changes, though, that's totally okay with me, too.

Re "description and uses", I ran out of columns. I want to have the number of genera in a separate column for sortability, and I think it's good information. I think distribution deserves its own column. A possibility would be to combine the type genus and etymology into one column... just thought of that and it might not be a bad idea. Then I could have a description and uses column. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 18:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Also, did you see the way I did the images? (You may have to look at the code to do that.) I used {{Multiple image}} within the image cell to get the header, two images, and footer, all aligned and spaced properly. I did have to make sure the images were cropped so they would be the same height, which you know I like. It's a good solution, and I couldn't find anything in the MOS or WP guidelines that says using that template within a table is a no-no. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 18:25, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

No opinion, really. - Dank (push to talk)

Ha! Well, it looks like combining Type genus and Etymology wasn't my idea, was it? You do that already! Guess I'll get to work on that soon. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I struggled with this for a while, and settled on "Type genus and etymology" for the name of the column ... that suggests, but doesn't promise, that I'm giving you an etymology for the type genus. And maybe 19 times out of 20, that's what I'm doing. But at Lentibularia­ceae in the next list, List of lamiid families, I'm saying: Type genus: Utricularia. Lentibularia, an earlier synonym for the genus, probably comes from the Greek for "lentil-shaped bladders". - Dank (push to talk)

You're not blanking out, you haven't done much for the lilioid list (unless I'm blanking out!) I'm thinking ahead here: if we have a series of lists that take different approaches to some questions, then eventually we'll get reviewers saying "I thought it was this way, why are you doing it this other way?" So, I think the optimal strategy depends on what you want. But, breaking news: I just now got my second support for the lilioid list ... so now we've got more options. Would you be interested in straight-up nomming (not co-nomming) the basal asterids list (either before or after the campanulids)? I'm 2 or 3 days away from being done with the grunt work on that one ... but there are things you're doing that I haven't done, such as giving translations from Latin or Greek in cases where the plant name came from Latin or Greek, adding a genera column, adding vernacular names for species, adjusting the images, bringing in additional sources, etc. If you do a big chunk of the work, no one would object if you nom it, and the advantage would be that I could then review it. If you want to go this direction, then I have a favor to ask: if you want to review lilioids (your option of course), let's leave it looking at least similar to my other two lists, because now it's already got two reviews ... and I'm starting to get a reputation as someone who likes to make changes after people have already supported, and I don't want that reputation :) Take your time, think about what you want out of all this ... you say you're easy, but I'm also easy, so ... it's just a matter of what you want. It wouldn't bother me even a little bit to adopt a role of getting a certain amount of the grunt work done in these lists, then handing them over to you, which would leave me free to nominate a different series of lists. - Dank (push to talk) 19:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I just changed the suggestion to basal asterids rather than lamiids, i think that's all-around more likely to succeed. - Dank (push to talk) 19:34, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

So regarding the reviews, and sames/diffs among lists, as far as I'm always concerned, they can be standalone and not look like others... unless there is already some format made by consenus, for example the taxon template for plants from the project. But like the species list I did, I came up with the format after trial and error of others while I was working on it. If I ever get to another species list, will it have the same format? Probably just simply because copy and paste is efficient. But if I vear from that...? I don't think it's a big deal. What I am not "easy" about is anything related to sources, citations, and verifiability and things that fall into this category, including copyright and plagiarism. Those are my big deals. Not that I do source reviews all the time. It's just that if I do, they are intense. Oh, and I love images and would like more images in articles than perhaps what Wikipedia does, especially of bugs and spiders on flowers. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 05:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I think I may have made FLC sound more difficult and scarier than it usually is, sorry. All I'm proposing is that both of us take it one nomination at a time, and see what happens, and adjust accordingly. What I was trying to say was: my lists have been different than your lists in a few details, but to avoid the possibility of confusing reviewers over slight differences in style, I've adjusted my style to better match yours ... for instance, by adding sortable genera (they're sortable because they're the first thing in the distribution column).

If you decide that you want a "description and uses" column that's similar to mine, let me know if there's anything I can do to help. One option: since I've got several of the relevant FGVP volumes and the PotW book here, I'll be happy to tackle that column myself, if you prefer. I'm pretty sure that whatever we do (or don't do) with a column like this will sail through FLC. - Dank (push to talk) 15:45, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

"I ain't skeered a nuthin'." That's a quote from my cousin about herself, but it mostly applies to me, too. I am scared of things, some which you've already seen, but they have nothing to do with Wikipedia. So, no, you didn't make FLC sound scary, or if you did, I didn't even notice.

If you do that column, then we should co-nominate it. Let's see. If I get stuck, I'll let you know, and I probably will. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 17:26, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Just nominated my lamiids. Did you put a Thomandersia image up at Commons? I thought I saw one before ... I don't see it now. - Dank (push to talk) 23:36, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it's in the family category because I was too lazy at that moment to create the genus or species categories. I'm still too lazy, but normally, I would have. Normally, I don't say, "Someone will come along and fix it later." That's why I never finish anything! :) – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 05:23, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Oh, and because I'm a chronic perfectionist to the point of hinderance. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 05:24, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't see it, sorry. c:Category:Thomandersiaceae has "no pages or files in this category". - Dank (push to talk) 15:45, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I popped back and answered that on my main talk page because I had to go back there to see what I had actually done! – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 17:14, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Update

Hi, Dan. Slow going right now. I had about a 3.5 day bout of vertigo on the weekend and earlier in the week, and I've just been mentally exhausted and not able to focus well. I don't know that I've ever had one that lasted that long. There were only minor breaks in it other than when I was sleeping. I also had louder tinnitus. I have Ménière's which includes the symptoms of tinnitus and vertigo. I just wanted to ping you and let you know not to worry about this list. It's coming along, just a little slower right now. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I hate vertigo ... fortunately, the only times I've suffered from it have been after I've taken aspirin, so I've stopped taking aspirin (which is a known trigger for it). ibuprofen seems to work fine for me. Best of luck, that sounds awful. - Dank (push to talk) 04:34, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I think excessive aspirin use in childhood may have helped me acquire it, as well as chronic ear infections. It was the only thing we had for a headache back then. Now they don’t recommend aspirin for children or infants. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:44, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Dan. I'm burned out right now – fatigued mentally and physically – and am going to take a Wikibreak. I'll probably pop in to correct something I'm reading if I see spelling errors and such, because I actually read Wikipedia all the time, but I don't have it in me to push through and finish open items before I put up a Wikibreak sign. I will see all talk page messages for anything I follow and will answer them if directed to me, or comment if I'm tagged and need to. If you want to work on this list here, or copy it into your namespace, you are welcome to. Don't worry about me. This happened at exactly this time last year, and possibly the year before. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 09:16, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry to hear about the fatigue, but yay for wikibreaks. PresN recently left a message on my talk page saying that it would be good for me to create a template that shows how all the pieces of this list series fit together ... so at some point, I'll need to have something called a list of campanulids just so there's not a hole in that template ... but I'll put it off as long as I can. Get well. I'll be holding good thoughts for you. - Dank (push to talk) 13:29, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Another update

I've got roughly 3 articles to finish, then (for complicated reasons involving this navbox) I'll need to do something about the campanulids if that's still a red link ... I don't have a preference, anything other than a red link would work for me (and I'm happy to do it of course, or you can). But there's still plenty of time left. Wikibreaks are good, enjoy it while it lasts! - Dank (push to talk) 18:02, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

@Eewilson: forgot to ping. - Dank (push to talk) 14:27, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Dank, Wikibreak is good timing because a lot is going on here including upcoming surgery to remove a cancerous mass from one of a close friend's kidneys. I've been helping them out because they also have emphysema as well as needing a companion to doctor's appointments, etc. Tomorrow, they'll be signing paperwork for the "just in case" scenario. Surgery will be Monday.

Thank you for the heads up. I don't imagine I'll be able to focus on anything. You are fast, so you will probably be ready before I am. You are perfectly welcome to take the campanulids over. If you want to check with me closer to time, you can.

Think good thoughts in whatever way you choose for my friend. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 08:36, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

So sorry to hear about that ... sounds like you're the kind of friend I'd want to have, if I were in the same fix. - Dank (push to talk) 13:01, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Apologies, me again. 1. Any objection to breaking up the campanulids into two lists, Asterales and non-Asterales? And: would you rather do both, eventually? If so, great; if not, I'll be happy to tackle the non-Asterales. - Dank (push to talk) 18:59, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Dan. No apologies necessary! If you think splitting it up is a good idea, that's fine. Right now on break, I'm not in deep enough to have an opinion about it. It's possible if you haven't gotten to working on this before I come back to it, I may just continue with it as is. What is your thought/reasoning for possibly splitting? – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 20:53, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Well ... I didn't mean you're doing a bad job, what you've done looks good. I was mainly trying to give you more options (in case that's helpful or desirable) and deal with the annoying rules regarding navboxes. Warning: navbox rules are dry, boring, and harder than they need to be, so you might not be interested. My current working version (assuming the campanulids are split) is at User:Dank/Temp. But the main goal was just to give you more options ... you could get two FLs out of it (eventually) instead of one, or you could lighten your load by choosing to do whichever parts are more interesting to you. Any split of the campanulids would be fine if you want to do that, such as "basal" and "non-basal". - Dank (push to talk) 21:24, 15 March 2023 (UTC) But not splitting would also be fine ... if so, I'll go with "Campanulids" in the navbox (until something exists in article-space) and cross my fingers. - Dank (push to talk) 01:37, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm back with an update ... hope you're enjoying your semi-break. My guess is that my list of malvids will get promoted to FL sometime in May, and then I'll be running the Featured Topic gantlet, I hope. (I'm already starting to forget details in the earlier lists, so I can't put off the FT run for too much longer ... too much risk of embarrassing myself.) So, here are options to consider for the campanulid list:

• If you want to start working on it again, great. I can be as hands-off as you like.
• If you don't want to work on it anytime soon, great, I can keep almost all of what you've done, and work something up that will hopefully pass FLC and FT. You can co-nom or not ... and even if you do nothing else, you've easily done enough already to get "full credit" for the FL and FT stars, the way people judge these things. And remember that FLC isn't like FAC ... if there are things you want to add, but not right now, you can always come back months later and add them.
• FT has a special thing they can do called an "audited article of limited subject matter", and there's even an official little icon to go with it. It's less of a big deal than FLC, but maybe that's what you're in the mood for. I've give you details if you're interested.
• Again, hope you're enjoying your break, and it would be nice to chat and catch up even if you're still on a semi-break. - Dank (push to talk) 14:56, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
• @Eewilson, progress report: just finished List of COM-clade families and List of COM-clade families#Vitales and Zygophyllales, now starting on the malvids. - Dank (push to talk) 15:15, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

@Dank: Hi, Dan! Sorry for my delay. I've been mostly out of Wikipedia. I'm on it several times a day to look things up, but as far as editing goes, as you can tell by checking my history, I haven't done anything. I am feeling less burned out than I was, so that's a good sign. I'm going to send you an email with a few updates. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 07:24, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your email, and glad to hear you're feeling better. I'd prefer to keep our communication on-wiki, if that works for you. I'm going to be taking a break from Wikipedia soon myself, so if you'd like any help with the campanulids, let me know sooner rather than later, please. I'll be happy to try to get it through FLC (and if that works, then afterwards, I won't object to any changes you want to make). I'd be just as happy to do nothing, but I need to know whether it's time to give up on shooting for a featured topic before my break. - Dank (push to talk) 15:12, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Just want to be clear ... if I seem stressed, I am, it's health and family issues (and doesn't have anything to do with you ... sorry if I've given you any "mixed messages". Doing the best I can here.) - Dank (push to talk) 01:38, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

No mixed messages of any kind at all, and I didn't take it that way! I'm sorry you're stressed and having health issues. I really am, that really sucks, and I do hope you take a Wikibreak. I don't know what's going on and don't have to, but I'm sending you a heartfelt hug and good vibes and hope it will help.

It seems I take a break every year that sometimes lasts longer than the time I work on Wikipedia! I think you're like me in that when you work on something, you work intensely. You seem much better than I am at finishing an article before moving on to the next, though. I have quite a few in-progress articles or article updates.

I don't need any help with the campanulids right now unless getting it out there sooner rather than later is important, because I can't predict when it will be. I would need to contact you if I need anything else from one of the books you have, which I would not know until I got there.

Regarding my emails, I've just been sending something via email if I don't care to share it in a public forum, but if you don't want me to do that, that would be okay with me too, and I wouldn't take it personally. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 02:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Normally emails are fine, and I enjoyed reading yours, but I'm going to turn off "email this user" (and one of my phones, too) for a month or so ... too much to deal with right now. Re: campanulids ... not a problem. Thanks for your support. - Dank (push to talk) 02:50, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, another update, but this one isn't my fault, it's coming from the taxonomy guys. P.F. Stevens, over here (and click on the "updates to APG IV" link), says that there is/are new euasterid order(s) that don't belong in the lamiids or the campanulids ... so, in the next version of these lists, I'll have to combine those two clades into one euasterid page. Rather than do it one way now and change everything in the future, I'm going to go ahead and add some basic information on the campanulids to my existing lamiid list. Of course, your campanulid list has a lot of details that my list will never have, so from where I'm sitting, your list would make an excellent featured list and even contribute to a small featured topic, if you want to go in that direction. But there's no rush on my end. - Dank (push to talk) 02:01, 7 May 2023 (UTC)