Talk:U.S. National Indoor Championships

Templates

There seems to be a bit of a problem regarding Template:TennisEventInfo and Template:TennisEvents with this event. I think what should technically happen is that the articles for the male and female events should be at different places - i.e. 2008 Regions Morgan Keegan Championships - Singles and 2008 Cellular South Cup - Singles etc not 2008 Regions Morgan Keegan Championships and the Cellular South Cup - Men's Singles and 2008 Regions Morgan Keegan Championships and the Cellular South Cup - Women's Singles. Whilst the main article would remain at e.g. 2008 Regions Morgan Keegan Championships and the Cellular South Cup. However, in order to facilitate this, custom versions of each of the two templates would need to be built. I might work on this in the future but am about to go away so won't be able to do it for a while - rst20xx (talk) 14:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Well this has support of Plafond so I'll go ahead and do it when I get time - rst20xx (talk) 15:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Done! Sooner than I thought, too - rst20xx (talk) 23:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Request for wider input on discussion at WikiProject Tennis

There is a long, ongoing discussion at WP:Tennis about the tournament tables found in tennis articles on English-language Wikipedia (e.g., this type of table). The discussion is about whether the "official sponsored name" of a tournament - such as Internazionali BNL d'Italia - or another tournament name without the sponsor - such as Rome Masters - must be used in those articles. Please join the discussion here. Thanks. Tennis expert (talk) 08:37, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Event's name has changed

Why insist on continuing to use the event's old name? The event's name was changed with its purchase by the USTA and that is now the only name listed on the website.Zellfire999 (talk) 18:49, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

This is an interesting case here. "U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships" has been an ongoing event in several venues since 1898. It came to Memphis in 1976. The ownerships in Memphis have always associated itself as the "U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships" though also with revolving sponsorship names. Last October the new owners, with the blessing of the USTA, seem to have dropped the "U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships" completetly and renamed the event the Memphis Open. The official website has also dropped the "U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships" full history of past champions and only list winners since 1976 (when the U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships moved to Memphis). My first thoughts are that the "U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships" should now be classified as a defunct tournament having ended in 2014. The redirect of "Memphis Open (tennis)" to the "U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships" should be ended and a new tournament created. However since the tournament itself indicates that it will accept past champions from the time it went to Memphis perhaps we should also keep the overlap in both locations. The new Memphis Open page should also have a prominent link at the top to the old event at the "U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships". Thoughts? Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:10, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

1975 U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships

• copied from Tennis Project talk page in case of future converstions on this page.

If we see this table we can read in 1975 row: Jimmy Connors defeated Vitas Gerulaitis 5–7, 7–5, 6–1, 3–6, 6–0. Reading the ATP page about the Memphis tournmament [1] in the section "Past Results" there's written: 1975 S|D Harold Solomon Dick Stockton / Erik Van Dillen: is there a mistake in our wiki page? If we see the completed table at this url we can see the Solomon's victor and not the Connors one.--Matlab1985 (talk) 02:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Two different events in the strange world of tennis. The U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships, which has been around since 1898, occasionally switched venues. You'll not from 1964 to 1975 it was held in Salisbury... the event Connors won in 1975. In 1975 the U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships moved to Memphis and was held there till 2014. However prior to 1976 there was a different Memphis Open event. That is the event that Stockton won. If you see the new event's webpage of past champions, it starts in 1976.... not even acknowledging that the prior Memphis Open existed. Tennis history is littered with these weird things and it's kind of tough to make accurate articles because of it. Anyway that's the story. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:29, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

OK, but if you write an article about the 1975 U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships you have to consider the Solomon victory and not the Connors one. Connors won the title of Salisbury when the U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships was just moved to Memphis at Mid-South Coliseum (in 1976 at Racquet Club of Memphis) that is the tournament reported in our wiki page. If you create an article called 1975 U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships and talk about Connors Salisbury victory there's a wrong. The 1975 Salisbury tournament is another one and not ad edition of the most famous U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships.--Matlab1985 (talk) 11:56, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Actually, per sources and news accounts, the US National Indoor didn't move to Memphis until 1977...so this article has a different error. We have Connors winning in 1975 (also listed here), and Nastase winning in 1976. Those events won by Solomon and Amritraj were simply the Memphis Open. There is a 1976 Illinois paper that calls the event the "World Championship of Tennis' $60,000 Memphis Racquet Club Classic.". Also another 1976 paper here and Sports Illustrated here. So what needs correcting is the 1976 row that has Amritraj winning... that was a different event and needs to be removed in favor of Nastase winning. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:50, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Good catch, @Fyunck:. Your deductions are correct, thanks, but there's another problem the ATP website: why does it talk about the 1975 and 1976 tournaments and not begin from 1977, and why do we call this tournament U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships from this year (1977)? If you could find an article about the 1977 Memphis tournament called 1977 U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships we could solve the enigma.--Matlab1985 (talk) 22:23, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I found two quickly. Borgs win at the National Indoors in 1977 by a Bakersfield paper and an interesting 2003 Memphis paper that says 1977 was it first year hosting the US National Indoor after two events were held there in 1975 and 1976. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:39, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, @Fyunck(click):, the enigma is solved.--Matlab1985 (talk) 22:52, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm glad you originally asked the question because it helped track down a different error that we didn't know existed. I'm sure these little type mistakes creep into articles all the time, but unless someone catches it, it just sits there with the error for years. Happy editing. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:14, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

@Fyunck(click):, I write for it.wiki (you can see it) but en.wiki is better :-) (I'm sure sbout this). In this days some italian websites are writing about the Memphis tournament copying from our wiki websites so copying our errors but signing the article as an original one. They don't know nothing about tennis, they are good only to copy us. I don't like it.--Matlab1985 (talk) 23:46, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 20 February 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move - I'm not entirely sure what the agreement between Fyunck and Misbeliever was, but it does not seem to involve moving the page, so I don't see any consensus for that. (non-admin closure)  — Amakuru (talk) 10:13, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

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U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships → Memphis Open (tennis) – User:Fyunck(click) manually moved part of the article by copying and pasting it; without fixing interwiki + categories; U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships should be redirect to MO. – Misbeliever 06:26, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink).  Philg88 ^♦talk 07:01, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

This is a strange tournament but I believe my choice is the correct choice. They are not the same event by any means. The National Indoor ended in 2014 per the ATP. It ran from 1898 to 2014 in several different locations. It last location was Memphis starting in 1977. However the Memphis Open has been going from 1975-2015. While the two events coincided for awhile, they had different winners in 1975 and 1976. Since the National Indoor was around longer as a tournament I retained it's article and created the proper Memphis Open (tennis) article. That one has the correct information for 1975 and 1976, and now 2015. I guess it could have been flipped and we could have created a new U.S. National Indoors article. The official Memphis Open webpage doesn't even acknowledge pre-1977 winners anymore, so I'm not sure what the problem is here. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:11, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Would you rather we rename this the Memphis Open, wipe the slate clean of U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships, and recreate a brand new "U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships" wikipedia article? That could work too. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:14, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

We cleared that up on my Talk.--Misbeliever 08:46, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose – The entire article should not be moved. A partial copying of the U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships article to Memphis Open, as done by Fyunck(click), is probably the best solution even though it is far from perfect. It is more than a tad revisionist to claim all editions from 1977 onward as 'Memphis Open' but it does closely follow the two main sources; ATP and the Memphis Open website. An alternative would be to create a 'Memphis WCT' tournament article for the 1975 and 1976 events, leave the 1977 to 2014 editions at U.S. National Indoor Tennis Championships and start the Memphis Open as of 2015. --Wolbo (talk) 13:53, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Except the Memphis Open itself considers 1976-2015 as the same tournament... so readers will see that on the official website and come here to find out more info and only see 2015 onwards. I agree it's not ideal... but them this particular event is not ideal as a tournament either. Anyway it's been settled per the person who requested the move and should be speedily closed. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

request edit: George Shafer, runner up in men's singles

You correctly have George Shafer listed as runner up in men's singles in the early 1900s. but when I click on that listing, it goes to the wrong George Shafer. It links to George F. Shafer, a Montan politician. It was George Carlton Shafer who was the tennis player. I know because he was my grandfather. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.29.38 (talk) 23:54, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

 Done Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:31, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

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Redundancies with Memphis Open

I already mentioned it in Talk:Memphis Open (tennis). These two pages seem to be redundant, one portraits almost all that is shown in the other page.--Siebenschläferchen (talk) 22:23, 6 October 2022 (UTC)