Talk:The Killing Time

Killing Times

My expansion aims at explain the real facts behind the Killing Time. It had nothing at all to do-it has to be stressed-with armed resistance to the imposition of Episcopacy. Rcpaterson 01:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear sirs, I have not had the temerity to edit this excellent piece but wonder if there might be a mistake. In the quoted text below, instead of 'restoring patronage in the appointment of ministers to conjugations', shouldn't it be to e.g. lairds? Surely the problem was reverting to the previous set up whereby conjugations did not have the right to elect their own minister but had to accept the candidate of the local figure in authority? Either I am completely wrong and have missed a trick (and whoever wrote this really knows what they are talking about) in which case maybe a bit of additional clarity might be in order; or the author in question has made an error absentmindedly almost in the manner of a typo. I state this in good faith and with great respect

However, at his Restoration in 1660, the King renounced the terms of the Treaty and his Oath of Covenant, which the Scottish Covenanters saw as a betrayal. The Rescissory Act 1661 repealed all laws made since 1633, effectively ejecting 400 Ministers from their livings, restoring patronage in the appointment of Ministers to congregations and allowing the King to proclaim the restoration of Bishops to the Church of Scotland. Sumsprotticus (talk) 08:28, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

James Guthrie

The caption on the image "Rev. James Guthrie, executed in 1661 for criticising Charles II's reintroduction of episcopacy" is a simplification at best.

James Guthrie (c. 1612–1661) was executed after the Restoration for high treason for his support of the "Western Remonstrance" (opposition to the rescinding of the Act of Classes), and his rejection of King's ecclesiastical authority. He was not the only man executed in 1661 for high treason (three others were and they had all actively opposed the Royalist faction in 1650-51).

That the authorities wanted him dead because of the trouble he might cause post the Restoration (rather than actions taken a decade before) may well be true -- similar arguments can be advanced for the execution of Major Thomas Harrison -- but such a POV needs an authoritative modern academic source, and not an old source that has an axe to grind on this issue. -- PBS (talk) 14:39, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Figures

I've added an actual figure of the number of executions, something notably lacking in the article.

This also attempts to introduce the view of most contemporary historians which was that the "Killing Time" in the strictest definition, i.e. of repression through execution, transportation etc, was a phenomenon largely confined to the Cameronians, who were regarded as armed rebels against the government, and continued for a fairly short period. 19th century / folk historiography tended, under the influence of Wodrow, to fold it into general repression of Presbyterianism (hence the talk in some old books of perhaps thousands of deaths - I suppose the latter can be supported if you include every rebellion and military action Covenanting forces were invlved in.) The article should really distinguish between the 'Killing Time' as a phenomenon of popular culture and historiography and the summary excutions of suspected and actual Cameronians in 1680-5, some up to date academic sources might help.Svejk74 (talk) 13:36, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Result?

Under result it is claimed: "Presbyterianism accepted in 1690 Act of Settlement." That's the result of the Dutch invasion of 1688, not the result of the Killing Times. Creuzbourg (talk) 16:18, 14 December 2019 (UTC)