Talk:Sedan (automobile)

Concerns

This article claims that the sedan is the most common configuration. I don't know of any statistics, but I'd say that, certainly in Europe, the hatchback is just as common. If anyone has statistics or can clarify this in some other way then please tell me. If not, then I'll probably edit it to say that the sedan is one of the most common configurations. 999 11:26, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

The photograph of "Tata Indigo" in the article is not a sedan but a station wagon variant of the car called "Tata Indigo Marina", if observed closely one can see the letters "SW" on the front number plate in the photo for "Station Wagon".. The photo has to be changed.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.68.145.230 (talk • contribs). On 12:37, February 20, 2006.

There only seem to be examples from the US, I didn't even know a sedan was a saloon car the article is too american rather than international. (Fdsdh1 (talk) 15:22, 14 July 2012 (UTC))

2-door sedan

I've added a merge proposition for the 2-door sedan article, it more or less says the same thing as the 2-door sedan section. Alternatively, we could merge the section into that article; however, 2-door sedan is the only specific type of sedan to have its own article. --Varco 22:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Just finished the merge. --Hetar 01:57, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I called it Two-door sedan in the article now, too, bringing in some consistency and trying to avoid sentences that start with 2. —Camaro96 06:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC).

The link to "Coupé" is somewhat misleading as a two-door sedan is not a coupe. Further I included the expression "coach" which was used by many manufacturers for this body style, mainly in France but also in the U.S. --Chief tin cloud (talk) 10:07, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Disambiguation

denomination

sedan should leed to the disambiguation. its utterly ignorant to think the car would be the first thing to look up. a wellknown battle took place there and its a big city.--Tresckow 15:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. I think most people looking for the French town would go to Sedan, France, and anyone looking for the battle would go to Battle of Sedan. Calling it a big city is a stretch, its own article states that it is only a town with 20,000 people. More people will probably know what a sedan car is than what happened at the Battle of Sedan. -Varco 18:05, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

maybe in the us but no british, australian or anyone in the rest of the world knows what a sedan is. so general information and not specificly american should be emphasized. at least sedan should bring you tto the disambiguation.--Tresckow 13:35, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like sour grapes.

I disagree with Tresckow and agree with Varco--true, a Brit may not know what a sedan is, but in that case s/he would look up "saloon", which would not be ambiguous at all. So, the only question is North Americans looking up sedan, and frankly, I hadn't heard of Sedan, France before reading this. And when looking up places, unless it's someplace known worldwide like Paris or Tokyo, I put the country name in after the city name. I think the other uses link at the top of the article is the perfect solution for those looking for Sedan, France and getting the car style instead. Jrbbopp 14:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Sedan is a place thats well know word wide, your personal knowledge of geography has no bearing on that. Sedan should go to Disambiguation as the car classification is exclusively North American whilst the Place and the Chair Universaly use Sedan through out the Angloshere. French doesn't distinguish between towns and cities so the translation of Ville is irrelevent. As to what you say on world wide knowledge, Jermyn Redirects to a town/city in Pensylvania that none outside of the US has heard of even though the Jermyn familly and the street are much more well known. Its entirely a case of the Americanisation thats ruining Wikipedia.(Morcus (talk) 21:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC))

I understand where you're coming from but what do you think would happen if Sedan linked to the article about the town and only gave a link to the car style as a "see also"? you know as well as I do that there would be far more complaining, whining and general petty back and forth as is always the case when a large group of users collide with another large group. Compromise is key, I'd wager people looking for information on the car style will likely type Sedan and those who are looking for the town will either type "Sedan, France", "Battle of Sedan" or will do so after finding themselves at the car style page - it's not a huge issue. 84.67.49.73 (talk) 11:11, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

It is a big issue, compromise is the key and the biggest compromise would be a disambiguation page which would obviously contain the car body style, the chair, the place and the battle. The big deal is the over Americanisation of wikipedia. the Sedan article doesn't give a correct deffinition of the saloon body style but I'm sure any attempt to make a page on said body style would quickly be deleted. The only car body style with different names in English and American that doesn't use the American is Coupé, surely if it was about compromise that wouldn't be the case. To restate my position, it is a big issue because its a case of Usonion Arogance which is ruining Wikipedia and the assumption that because most americans will be looking for the car body that everyone in the Anglosphere will be. This is sadly the case with so much here. I can't speak for anywhere else but most people in the UK are more likely to think Chair than car if you say sedan and most wouldn't know that the Saloon body is called sedan in north America.Why should the rest of us have to go through more for the benefit of the US and Canada (And before you try and claim most english speakers are from those to places I point you towards India and Pakistan, Both countries where English is the official language and where the vast majority also speak it.(Morcus (talk) 00:32, 29 July 2008 (UTC))

• One way to look at it would be to go to Special:WhatLinksHere/Sedan_(disambiguation), look through each of the pages that link to Sedan and see to what topic they apply. I went through the first 500 and found only four that aren't referring to the car style. Three of these should have pointed to Sedan, France, so I repaired those, and the fourth, located at Battle of Stalingrad#Beginning of the battle, I found to be slightly ambiguous (although most likely refers to Sedan, France). Personally, I find that alone to be overwhelming evidence that on Wikipedia, the Primary topic for the term "Sedan" is the car style. In any case, not to sound like a jerk (hopefully I don't because I don't mean to), but I would like to throw in the reminder that whoever was responsible for changing Sedan from a redirect to the car into a redirect to the disambiguation page is also responsible for updating all of the links that point to Sedan, currently more than 1400. "Links to the old page title will not be changed; be sure to check for double redirects (using "What links here") after the move. You are responsible for making sure that links continue to point where they are supposed to go." (emphasis added) It would certainly be easier to have it redirect to the car since that's what the overwhelming majority of those links refer to. Rejectwater (talk) 17:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Obviously there are many brands of cars, and even more models, so the car body style is numerous, and counting links is pointless. Yet, in an encyclopedia, a car style named after a French town (like Limousine) is still less significant than the town itself, or a major battle fought there. See MS Encarta ([1]). Its safe to say that a British or Australian source could care less for the Americanisms. US car buffs should learn that there is something outside the lower 48, even if they can't drive there. If you worry about the links, make a WP:Bot Request. -- Matthead  Discuß   17:49, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

So it's less pointless to follow what you interpret as the example set by Encarta than to go along with the well established standard on Wikipedia that Sedan refers to the car style, Sedan, France to the town in France, and Battle of Sedan to the battle? Making this change is needlessly disruptive, and in absence of consensus there is no authority to make it. Rejectwater (talk) 22:17, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Sedan (car) refers to the car style. We can change that to saloon (car) anytime if you want. And a bot can replace [[Sedan]] with [[Sedan (car)|Sedan]] in the 1000+ articles. BTW: Wikpedia is no democracy, and consensus can change. You may want to read up the the well established standards on Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines.-- Matthead  Discuß   12:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I realise this is old now but considering that Saloon is used the world over anyhow, while Sedan is mostly confined to America, maybe a switch should occur and the article be renamed to reflect the majority, rather than the minority?

Thanks Jenova20 11:19, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Please review the WP guidelines in MOS:ENGVAR. No variant of the English language is inherently more correct than another. Moreover, there is no point in mixing up a type of automobile design with a tavern, a room, or establishment where alcoholic drinks are served over a counter; nor with an area found below the deck of a yacht. Thanks! CZmarlin (talk) 01:59, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Changes

Regarding the edits by Racky pt (talk)

• Headings and subheadings are changed only after careful consideration - See: Manual of Style#Sections and headings
• The "See also" section should not be expanded. It is not to be a collection of internal links (except for disambiguation pages when an article title is ambiguous, and for structured lists to assist with the organisation of articles) - See WP:NOT#LINK
• Regarding the comment "Forget history, who needs?" -- Please recall that Wikipedia is a free content, multilingual encyclopedia written collaboratively by contributors around the world. That also means explaining the history and origin of the word "sedan". What better way to illustrate the first use of the word by showing a the drawing of object that was called "sedan". This adds more to the encyclopedia than yet another picture of a modern day 4-door automobile. Thank you - CZmarlin 17:10, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Carry on good work about history. What i see is there is little about trends in contemporary sedans. all the pics are of olden days. also visitor should not end up in article, he should find ways to navigate. hence i wished to expand see also, you removed hatchback also -not acceptable. as for current trend suv sales are falling and sedan and hatchback are coming to prominence and make for most of market share in developing countries. also not much about design details of sedan like FF and FR layout(not even mentioned). such contemporary info is missing which are more important than history. Racky pt 06:07, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Unreferenced crap

These sections were unreferenced. No such thing called S M L XL nor XXL sedan exists on this earth. pasting the code here.

Small sedans

Sedan body styles on smaller cars are now less popular in Europe after the hatchback revolution during the 1970s. In the U.S. and many developing countries notchback sedans like the Volkswagen Jetta retain popularity.

The first major European manufacturer to phase out sedans in favour of hatchbacks was Renault, who introduced the hatchback (Renault 4) in 1961. In the case of Renault, the only sedan offered is the Megane; rival Fiat actually does not offer a sedan model in its European range at all.

On the other hand, the Japanese and Korean automakers continue to offer compact sedans as a popular body design for consumers in a range of brands and models sold in world markets.

1986 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight. Note the formal, upright stance that was popular in the 1980s.

Large Sedans

The 3-box sedan body style is still used on large and luxury cars. The hatchback feature has been notably unsuccessful in penetrating this segment worldwide. Instead, the angle of the rear window has been steadily increasing, as seen on the Audi A6, making many modern sedans resemble fastback sedans.

DO NOT ADD without a valid reference. small and large are there in any thing. keep crap away Ali mehmood zaki 14:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

This entire article has only 2 references and I put one of those there on a piece that was deleted by someone complaining that my info lacked reference. the whole article should be referenced.(Morcus (talk) 14:33, 2 August 2008 (UTC))

The two of you have misunderstood, small/large saloon isn't a classification but a description. The sections should have been challenged for references, but you removed them for the wrong reason. Alastairward (talk) 23:33, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

The first sedan

As far as I'm concerned, a sedan is basically a car with roof. And, as far as I'm concerned, the first sedan was the Renault Voiturette of 1899. I don't reckon of an earlier sedan, but if someone knows, please let me know.--Fluence (talk) 23:16, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

A Saloon cannot have a tailgate.

I got the reference from the 'Little Oxford English Dictionary' Eighth Edition 2002 isbn 0-19-860452-1 on page 617 under Saloon deffinition 4, Brit a car with a seperate boot. Any British English dictionary should givew the same or at least very simillar deffinition. This is the reason why I started a seperate article for Saloon. I must ask How the OED can be questionable as a source when the article only has one other source and that source is about where the word came from.(Morcus (talk) 01:07, 4 August 2008 (UTC))

I'm not questioning the OED, just your interpretation of it. Given your account of the entry, it doesn't seem to support the separate articles.Alastairward (talk) 07:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Here is a link to the OED online, their definition of saloon is; "c. A type of motor car with a closed body for four or more passengers." This does not mean that the "hatchback saloon/sedan" can be removed from the article, or that you can place a nonsensical comment below. Alastairward (talk) 07:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

1. That link doesn't work unless one has a subscription to it. 2. I'm not advocating a removal of the section as a Sedan body can have a tailgate. 3. the very deffinition of a Saloon is a car with a seperate Boot, Therefore you cannot have a hatchback saloon. Though I couldn't see the deffinition you were reering to, for a car to have 4 doors and be a hatchback it would have to have an odd number of passenger doors as a hatch is a door.(Morcus (talk) 13:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC))

Dear Morcus,

1. I don't have a subscription but I can access it.
2. Your poorly spelled addition to the article is a contradiction to the rest of the article, either you believe the section should stay or shouldn't. If you can't make up your mind I'll remove your addition.Alastairward (talk) 14:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Replacement of images

There is no need to replace the "rights free" image of the Opel 2-door sedan with a low-resolution scan of a General Motors PR picture of a Vega. Thank you, CZmarlin (talk) 15:10, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

You don't own the article and you don't ALWAYS decide. Your welcome,(Vegavairbob (talk) 00:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC))

What is the rationale for replacing it? Alastairward (talk) 00:27, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Vegavairbob seems very keen on increasing the number of Chevrolet Vega pictures in WP articles. In this instance I agree with CZmarlin. Also, regardless of the quality issue that he touches on, if the Opel image is replaced by any American car, then the article is illustrated entirely by American vehicles, which gives them undue weight. And Vegavairbob? CZmarlin's logical and reasonable response to your unexplained image substitution does not indicate an ownership issue. Writegeist (talk) 02:38, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not keen on anything...I didn't realize we need a strict country of origin balance with images. My image was a "thin-pillar" 2-door sedan with a text addition. Probably a new (sedan) reference for many. That's why I chose it.(Vegavairbob (talk) 04:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC))

Two-door sedans

Hi. In my experience, most people understand that a sedan has 4 doors and a coupe has 2 doors. Therefore I request that references be provided supporting that "two-door sedan" is a commonly used term. Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 10:53, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

hatchback sedans

i propose deleting section 1.4 hatchback sedans because it is an oxymoron.

According to the wikipedia article definition of hatchback "sloped back and a rear door that swings upwards when opened" a sedan does not qualify because it does not have a rear door. it has a trunk lid.

Also, this article states that a sedan has a 3 box configuration but hatchbacks have a 2 box configuration. thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.138.255 (talk) 04:06, 31 January 2013 (UTC)