Talk:Minnesota–Wisconsin football rivalry

Comment

Much of this article outiside of the intro seems to be copy/pasted from the GopherSports.com (see Sources section)article on the subject and then changed slightly. The text in question was added on 9 June 2006. Davidt2718 19:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

New Page needed

There needs to be a "UW-UM/UM-UW rivalry" page created, with the "Slab of Bacon" and "Paul Bunyan's Axe" pages cited with "main" links in subsections. Neither one of the current pages incorporates the full history of the rivalry (and it is a historic one). For listing purposes, the trophies should be cited in subsections of the overall rivalry page.

Nusumareta (talk) 04:24, 31 August 2011 (UTC) κ

expansion

Should more information be added to this article? The gophersports article seems to have some decent info, but shouldn't just be plagiarized. Any good sources would be appreciated.Polkapolkapoker 00:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Why is there not a picture of the axe? It would be useful to know what it looked like. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.87.237.180 (talk) 13:42, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

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Attention bot: (Will the bot's author even read this?) I will try to do that in the next couple of days (I'll have to read the fair use policy to see if it can be done for this image), but please note that deleting only that image gives more weight to Minnesota in this Minnesota-Wisconsin rivalry. If one goes, both go, fair use or not, simply for a balanced article.Polkapolkapoker 11:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

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Done.Polkapolkapoker (talk) 00:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The new Axe

does anyone what year they replaced the orginial axe with current all wood (?) one. I believe it was sometime around 2005 but do not know the exact year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.169.161.1 (talk) 16:56, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

The orginial axe was retired after 2003 game and new axe was created for the 2004 game.[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.169.161.1 (talk) 17:49, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Photo Requested - can I help?

I'm a current resident of Madison and a recent graduate from the UW, as well as photographer for The Daily Cardinal. I have some photos that may be helpful for this article, and am wondering about how best to make them available for use. Are there any particular shots that are wanted for it? hezy (talk to me) 19:49, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. I'll leave the merge in Cuchullain's capable hands. --BDD (talk) 17:04, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Paul Bunyan's Axe → Minnesota–Wisconsin football rivalry – The rivalry has been renewed almost every year since 1890 except for 1906. That's well before either the Slab of Bacon or Paul Bunyan's Axe were created in 1930 and 1948, respectively. 71.211.193.144 (talk) 09:23, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

• Maybe Slab of Bacon should be merged here, then? --BDD (talk) 16:51, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• Support. The proposed name reflects use in sources, which tend to go with descriptive names.[2][3][4] The descriptive name is also much more recognizable for readers. Eschewing these often obscure nicknames in favor of recognizable common names has been the trend with related articles, as with Michigan–Minnesota football rivalry, Florida–Georgia football rivalry, Iowa State–Kansas State football rivalry, Kentucky–Tennessee rivalry and Baylor–TCU football rivalry.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:40, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I also support the merge of Slab of Bacon into this article, and will volunteer to do the work.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:40, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merge from Slab of Bacon

Per the comments above, I've merged the contents of Slab of Bacon to this article (here). Since two of the links were broken, I added new sources that contained basically the same info. I also condensed the material and left out the series record, as the full record is included.--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:48, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

The 1892 game "debate"

The original Paul Bunyan's Axe from 1948 displays a 4-32 score on the handle for the 1892 game. (Click to zoom)

So people have been changing the overall score of the series based off one article by Brian Lucas from 2011 (link below). The basis for his claim of a Badgers victory was a mention from a 1901 game program where it says the 1892 game was a 40-32 Badgers victory. Now, something that has been, imo, grossly overlooked is the fact that the 1892 game has two contemporary newspaper mentions that can be found digitally. One from the Milwaukee Journal on October 31, 1892 and one from the Saint Paul Sunday Globe on October 30, 1892. Both mention a Badgers loss. These are, to my knowledge, the only references from the game in the year in which it was played that are available online. I'm sure local libraries might have digital copies or something though.

Sources state that in 1892 the Badgers lost to Minnesota (differing scores though some say 4-32 and others 4-34).

• Milwaukee Journal - Monday, October 31, 1892 (score 4-32)

Wisconsin Defeated.

The Wisconsin University Football team played its second scheduled game saturday afternoon with the University of Minnesota at Madison. The Wisconsin team was badly handicapped as some of its best men were unable to play, and as a result the visitors won an easy game by a score of 32 to 4. The first half closed with the score 8 to 4 in favor of Minneapolis. In the second half the home team forced the ball towards the visitors' goal and Krenshaw was within a few feet of the goal line when he was tacked[sic] and in the struggle his leg was broken above the ankle.

• Saint Paul Sunday Globe - October 30, 1892 (score 4-34) (hard to see, you're going to have to zoom in, but it says...)

Minnesota Footballers Defeat the Wisconsin Team.

Madison, Wis., Oct. 29-The football game between the Minnesota and Wisconsin teams resulted in a victory for the former by a score of 34 to 4. The Wisconsin team was handicapped by having six of its heaviest men in the hospital, the result of the Purdue game. About 1,000 people witnessed the game. Krnshaw[sic] left guard for Wisconsin, had his right ankle broken in the second half. Bruised and torn faces, broken fingers and sprains were the special features of the game.

• cfbdatawarehouse.com (score 4-34)
• Sports reference.com (score 4-32)
• Minnesota Golden Gophers 2011 Fact Book, page 136 shows 5-0 undefeated season
• Golden Gophers website Minnesota Football - 1892 schedule (score 4-32)

The only thing that states that in 1892 the Badgers beat Minnesota 40-32 is the Brian Lucas article. And in his article he says that he emailed both the UM and UW athletic departments and they changed their records based off his findings.

• dead link] Badgers pick up another win vs. Gophers ... last Sunday by Brian Lucas on November 9, 2011
• Wisconsin Badgers 2012 Fact Book, page 223
• Minnesota Golden Gophers 2013 Media Guide, page 131

Hopefully this settles this. —  dainomite   15:41, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Good research, thanks. I think we'd better go with what the majority of independent sources say, though perhaps the whole thing is worth a footnote or line or two in the article.--Cúchullain ^t/c 11:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! Well, if in the future there are any reliable sources that talk about the score or win/loss disparity we'll already have a good headstart here for supporting references for inclusion into this article. —  dainomite   12:07, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Just an update on this, the 2015 Wisconsin Badgers Fact Book lists the 1892 game as a 32-4 Loss now, instead of a 40-32 win and lists the series record correctly (post-2014 season) as (57-59-8). —  dainomite   16:13, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Expand this page to all sports

I suggest that we make this page open to all sports. Examples of pages using this format are Bedlam Series, Battle of the Bridge (Canisius–Niagara), Border War (Kansas–Missouri rivalry), Crimson and Gold Cup/Indiana–Purdue rivalry, and many more can be found at Category:College sports rivalries in the United States. I think the expansion to this page will be better than creating a new page for Border Battle. –Aidan721 (talk) 18:24, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

imo, make a new page for the border battle as they are two separate notable topics thus warranting two separate pages. The border battle started just a few years ago and is an all sports competition with points awarded throughout the academic year... The football rivalry started in the 1800s and is a fraction of the border battle's annual points. —  dainomite   22:13, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to expanding the article, but it should be called Minnesota–Wisconsin rivalry.--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:37, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

It's common for there to be a main page for college rivalries and separate pages for the college football rivalries.

• Crimson and Gold Cup is the trophy for the all-sports Indiana–Purdue rivalry, which also has an independent college football rivalry page, Old Oaken Bucket
• Iowa Corn Cy-Hawk Series for the Iowa–Iowa State rivalry which also has a separate college football rivalry page, Iowa–Iowa State football rivalry
• Kentucky–Louisville rivalry has a separate page for the college football rivalry, Governor's Cup (Kentucky).
• Virginia–Virginia Tech rivalry has a separate page for the college football rivalry, Virginia–Virginia Tech football rivalry
• Carolina–Duke rivalry has a few pages for the college football rivalry, Victory Bell (North Carolina–Duke) and Carlyle Cup.

—  dainomite   03:50, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

So, we can all agree that a "Border Battle" page should be made for the point system, and a page at Minnesota–Wisconsin rivalry for the sports rivalry? Or should a separate page be made for the football rivalry also? –Aidan721 (talk) 20:39, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Also, why does Border Battle link to Major League Baseball rivalries? –Aidan721 (talk) 20:45, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

There don't need to be separate articles for the point system and the rivalry, they can both be discussed at Minnesota–Wisconsin rivalry. I don't think "Border Battle" is commonly enough used to justify using as the title (especially if it needs to be disambiguated by a parentheses). I have no opinion on whether the football rivalry should stay separate. It may be easier to write an all-sports rivalry article from scratch.--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree that if an all-sports article is to be made it should be Minnesota–Wisconsin rivalry as opposed to Border Battle (Minnesota–Wisconsin) and then there mention that the two universities have a point system for X listed sports which they call the "Border Battle". Here's the 2015-16 Border Battle pages for each university, Minnesota, Wisconsin. —  dainomite   23:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

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