Talk:Kurds

fix and correct a big mistake in the kurds page

The page currently describes Kurds as an "Iranian ethnic group," which is not correct. The Kurds are a distinct ethnic group with their own language, culture, and history, and they should not be solely categorized as Iranian. I kindly request that the page be updated to reflect this distinction more accurately. A more appropriate description could be "Kurds are a West Asian ethnic group native to a region known as Kurdistan, which spans southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northern Syria." Thank you for considering this request. I appreciate the hard work you do to maintain the accuracy and integrity of Wikipedia. Best regards,

Jami Jamilmajid3 (talk) 03:17, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

I am writing to address an important issue concerning the portrayal of the Kurdish people on the Wikipedia page dedicated to them. The current description labels the Kurds as an "Iranian ethnic group," which inaccurately represents their distinct identity. The Kurds possess a unique linguistic, cultural, and historical heritage, distinguishing them as a separate ethnic group. Their ancestral homeland, Kurdistan, extends across parts of southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northern Syria. I respectfully request an update to the page to more accurately depict the Kurds' identity. A suggested revision could be: "Kurds are a West Asian ethnic group indigenous to a region known as Kurdistan, spanning across several countries including southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northern Syria."

regards, Jami Majid Jamilmajid3 (talk) 03:23, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

As of now, the article uses the label "Iranic ethnic group", not "Iranian ethnic group". Also, the current lead sentence does not say nor imply that Kurds do not have a distinct identity or are not a separate ethnic group.

One may argue (and which is also my personal opinion) that the geographic label "West Asian" is more helpful for the general reader than the label "Iranic" that emphasizes the wider linguistic, cultural, and historical affliations of the Kurds, but a discussion in Nov/Dec 2023 has shown that there is no consensus for such a change. –Austronesier (talk) 12:35, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. West Asian seems more appropriate than Iranic. 70.29.13.119 (talk) 04:23, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

agree, because we are not Iranian ReShan1956 (talk) 09:28, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

1st The Kurds are not "Iranic ethnic group" but they are "West Asian ethnic group native to a region known as Kurdistan, which spans southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northern Syria"

Sources: The Kurds: A Concise Handbook" by Mehrdad Izady. In this book, Izady explores the unique aspects of Kurdish culture, history, and language, distinguishing them from their neighbors, including the Iranians.

Another source is "The Kurds: A People in Search of Their Homeland" by Kevin McKiernan. This book provides an overview of Kurdish history and the struggle for a distinct Kurdish identity, including their differences from the Iranian people.

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2nd The Kurdish Language is not "Western Iranian branch of the Iranian languages" but The Kurdish people speak Kurdish languages, which are divided into different dialects such as Sorani and Kurmanji, each with its own unique accents and variations

Sources: The Kurds: A Modern History" by Michael M. Gunter: This book provides a detailed account of Kurdish history, politics, and society, highlighting their distinct ethnic identity separate from Iranians, Turks, and Arabs.

"A People Without a State: The Kurds from the Rise of Islam to the Dawn of Nationalism" by Michael Eppel: This book explores the historical background of the Kurdish people, their struggles for autonomy, and their unique cultural and linguistic identity.

"Kurdish Culture and Society: An Annotated Bibliography" by Lokman I. Meho and Kelly Maglaughlin: This bibliography provides an extensive list of resources on Kurdish culture, language, and history, offering insights into their distinct identity.

"The Kurds: An Encyclopedia of Life, Culture, and Society" edited by Sebastian Maisel: This encyclopedia covers various aspects of Kurdish life, including their languages, cultural practices, and social structures, highlighting their uniqueness as an ethnic group.

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172.103.196.12 (talk) 16:27, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Dispute: Kurds as an ethnic Ethnic Group.

Hello,

I would like to raise a concern regarding the description of Kurds in the article. The page currently describes Kurds as an "Iranic ethnic group," which I believe is not accurate. the Kurds distinct ethnic group with their own unique language, culture, and history.

Kurds inhabit a region known as Kurdistan, which spans across southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northern Syria. This geographical distribution and their distinct identity suggest that Kurds should not be solely categorized as Iranian.

I kindly request that the page be updated to reflect this distinction more accurately. A more appropriate description could be:

"Kurds are a West Asian ethnic group native to a region known as Kurdistan, which spans southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northern Syria."

This change would provide a more comprehensive understanding of the Kurdish identity and their geographical distribution.

Thank you for considering this modification.

Jamilmajid3 (talk) 19:38, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

First of all, don't add disputed-tags to talk pages. The way you used the tags indicated to readers that the accuracy of what you wrote is disputed. That was hardly your intention. Second, we go by reliable sources. Your suggestion is to change a text based on the terminology of reliable sources to a text based on your preferences. That is not how Wikipedia works. Jeppiz (talk) 20:36, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

there is 100 of evidences that we are indigenous people from Kurdistan ReShan1956 (talk) 09:31, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

@Jamilmajid3: This is spam at this rate. Kindly refrain from creating multiple sections for the same topic where you ask the same thing (I already merged your multiple sections here [1]). Please also read WP:SOAPBOX, WP:JDLI, WP:FORUM and the previous consensus [2]. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I've seen several pages where they write correct history. Please don't spread wrong information. We are indigenous ethnic groups and are not from Iran. ReShan1956 (talk) 09:26, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Looks like there is some brigading occurring. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:01, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

@HistoryofIranHistoryofIran,

I understand that there are guidelines and policies to follow on Wikipedia, and I respect the importance of maintaining the integrity of the encyclopedia. However, I believe that our discussions are a genuine attempt to ensure the accuracy and representation of the Kurdish people on Wikipedia. I kindly request that we continue this conversation with a focus on the content and sources, without perceiving each discussion or edit as spam or a threat. Our goal is to contribute positively to the article and reach a consensus that reflects the most accurate information based on reliable sources. Thank you for your understanding. 172.103.196.12 (talk) 22:47, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

@172.103.196.12: I'll keep it short and only answer to your second question from 23 March 2024. You say: The Kurdish Language is not "Western Iranian branch of the Iranian languages", even though we have multiple sources in various articles to support this well-known fact. Kurdish is an Indo-European language and belongs to its Iranian branch (or "Iranic" if that's more palatable to you). Denying this is linguistic flat-earthism.

So do these sources that you mention above (Gunter, Eppel, Meho & Maglaughlin, Maisel) belong to some alternative scholarly universe where this classification is rejected? No, claiming otherwise would mean slandering these academics. But their concern is not historical linguistics, so chances are high that they probably don't bother to delve into the question of the linguistic affiliation because it's off-topic to their discussion. Lack of mention does not imply rejection.

Please make yourself familar with at least some basic facts about language families before you go on to mechanically repeat that The Kurdish Language is not "Western Iranian branch of the Iranian languages". Thank you. –Austronesier (talk) 17:03, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

According to recent research of Palaeo/Archaeo-genetics and DNA Genealogy, forefathers of Kurds were in their earliest traceable origins mainly descendants of Near Eastern and Eurasian indigenous aboriginal peoples, predominantly oldest Neolithic farmers and shepherds who cultivated areas of the Northern Fertile Crescent ca. 10,000-5,000 B.C.E. During the last millennia B.C.E. these aboriginal Neolithic forefathers of Kurds were linguistically Indoiranianized by emigrating militarily organized elites from Central Asia

Kurds are traditionally regarded as Iranians and of Iranian origin, and therefore as Indo-Europeans, mainly, because they speak Iranian. This hypothesis is largely based on linguistic considerations and was predominantly developed by linguists. In contrast to such believes, newest DNA-research of advanced Human Anthropology indicates, that in earliest traceable origins, forefathers of Kurds were obviously de-scendants of indigenous (first) Neolithic Northern Fertile Crescent aborigines, geographically mainly from outside and northwest of what is Iran of today in Near East and Eurasia. Oldest ancestral forefathers of Kurds were millennia later linguistically Iranianized in several waves by militarily organized elites 2A02:3102:4162:AC:248D:F799:F704:35F5 (talk) 22:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Stop creating more and more threads, this is what, the eight one? Next time you will be reported. If you bothered to look into the previous discussion as you had been advised, you would have know this exact source was already discussed. I'm removing this section and merging it into the current one. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 April 2024

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Kurds are not Iranic people. There is a very significant misleading and misinformation on the identity of the Kurdish people. Please re-consider your resources and edit them properly. Mehtap Leyla Turanalp Uysal (talk) 19:35, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

•  Not done Malformed request without sources. Duplicates discussion above. Discuss with reliable sources in the above section and gain WP:CONSENSUS for change. Currently the consensus of reliable sources does not support this change.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Map

@Lionel Cristiano, I want to let you know that the WP:BURDEN is on you to provide the sources for the map on Wikimedia Commons. See WP:OR and WP:RS. It is clear that the map doesn't reflect what is on this article. Please self-revert and start a discussion on this talk page per WP:BRD instead of restoring your unsourced insertion. Thank you. Aintabli (talk) 14:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Aintabli, there is map diaspora in all races. I made the map based on the resources here. If u think it's wrong, I can edit it again, but it would be wrong to delete the map completely. Lionel Cristiano^? 14:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

@Lionel Cristiano

• there is map diaspora in all races.

Frankly, that doesn’t justify adding an unsourced map cross-wiki which disrupts the core verifiability policy of Wikipedia.

• I made the map based on the resources here.

The content on an article can change, and when it comes to such a map, it is imperative to be clear about the sources, which should not be difficult to find. On the other hand, I am repeating myself but the map doesn’t reflect the article fully.

• If u think it's wrong, I can edit it again

My opinions are irrelevant other than it being totally unsourced.

• it would be wrong to delete the map completely

Sorry, but it is not constructive to restore a contested addition. Think as if I added an unsourced statement and reverted your justified revert. It would be disruptive for me to force my favored revision which was contested. Please self-revert per WP:BRD. You can later specify the sources and adjust the map accordingly. Then, feel free to present the new version of the map here. Thank you, Aintabli (talk) 15:05, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

I deleted the map. Lionel Cristiano^? 15:08, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Aintabli (talk) 15:11, 17 April 2024 (UTC)