Talk:Guide dog

copyright issues

Technically, phrases like "guide do and "seeing eye dog" are copyrighted by the schools the dogs come from (in this case, by guide dogs for the blind, inc. and the seeing eye, respectively.) The proper generic term, and thus the correct title for this article is "dog guide". Students of these schools tend to be protective of their dog's status as a "guide dog", "seeing eye dog", or in my case "leader dog". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.27.121.239 (talk • contribs) 17:01, 2 July 2005 (UTC)

Good Point! The term "Guide dog" is a simple noun and is not trademarked. Most guide dog training schools/companies use this term for dogs that they train unless they have a different trademarked term that they use for the dogs. Companies as Seeing Eye, Inc and Leader Dog, Inc are examples of companies that use alternate names for their dogs. Additionally, these companies refer to dogs trained by other companies as "Dog Guides" rather than "Guide Dogs", this is probably due to the fact that so many other schools use the term "Guide Dog" in the name. The use of the term "Seeing Eye" dog could be problematic - The Seeing Eye, Inc. has trademarked that term and usage of the term is listed in their FAQ. Wikipedia has a redirect from seeing eye dog to guide dog and they may not like that very much. While I do wonder if the term may one day become a Genericized trademark that's not a fight for wikipedia to take on. Trysha 23:19, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

So...we should move it to Dog guide then? - The Great Gavini ^{I'm more of a cat person, actually} 09:03, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we need to. "Guide dog" itself isn't trademarked (as noted above) and it's the most common descriptive phrase for these dogs (as in the list of training schools in this article), so it certainly doesn't refer to any one in particular. Elf | Talk 19:40, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Rules for behaving around guide dogs

I have added a new section dealing with how to behave around a guide dog in public. Please ad to and revise the section as this information is long overdue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hurricane Omega (talk • contribs) 00:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, ok. But the section really needs to be cleaned up to make it encyclopaedic. The language should be more formal and less chatty (I feel like you're speaking directly to me, as the reader, and it's very distracting). Wikipedia is not a user manual, or a guide, so this section needs to be kept short and tight, and should probably be renamed as well. Exploding Boy 05:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Very helpful guidelines... very poorly written though --Froth 03:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Valuable information, but agree with the above - not very encyclopedic and reading too much like an instruction manual. If the editor adapted it from another website, why not just add a link to it or find a suitable one with similar guidelines? The section in dispute could be reinvented as a description of how handlers treat their service dogs compared to regular pets.--ChrisJMoor 01:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

As useful as it is, it's really not encyclopedic and shouldn't be on here.HornetMike 02:37, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Having consulted Wikipedia policies I have removed it. See Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not for why. HornetMike 17:46, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Here is a page you can use as reference for the guide dog etiquette piece Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind, Inc Etiquette page Jeepday 14:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Blind vs. visually impaired

"Blind."

We should refraim from using the tearm blind as many people belive blind is no vision at all. I suggest we use the tearm visually impaired.

Brandon A visually impaired person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.203.168 (talk • contribs) 2006-07-13T15:17:57

Training Schools

I think someone should attempt to start articles about the various training schools. I don't think any of them have an article. I also think a section on etiquette should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hurricane Omega (talk • contribs) 15:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

---

I've started an article on Leader Dogs for the Blind. I hope someone can expand it as well as make articles for the other major training schools. Guide Dogs for the Blind is the most commonly used school in the Western U.S. anyone can access their site for information on training and etiquette. EE —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hurricane Omega (talk • contribs) 20:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

List of Schools

I think articles on all the schools is great idea. But as user User:Icemuon pointed listing the individual schools on this page could get ugly. So I will go build a page to list the schools on. I am thinking divided by country or continent. Jeepday 11:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• ok the page List of Guide Dog Schools (also built redirect with no caps) is built it probably needs to be better populated before we link to it from the article. It may be the first of the year before I can do much work on it so feel free to jump in. Jeepday 12:03, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Training length

Someone asked to verify the length of time it takes to formally train a guide dog. Here are some links to a few organizations with their estimations.

• Guide Dogs of America
• Guiding Eyes for the Blind
• Leader Dogs for the Blind
• Assistance Dogs International's training guidelines for guide dogs

About four months is what most of the schools will say. In my experience, six to eight months would be more along the lines a service dog would undergo, although seizure response dogs can take even up to a year. Hearing dogs also have a short training time, but this is because most of their's is done in the home of their handler (training organizations aren't going to have the same type of ringing phone, fire alarm, etc.). Hope this helps. -- Sarranduin ^(Talk) 22:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Religion and Guide Dogs

I just ran across this news article "Guide dogs not haram, rules Shariah"

The Shariah Council has lifted any ban on guide dogs used by the disabled. [1]

Published: 1st February 2003

Might it make for an interesting addition to the guide dog article? Jeepday 04:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Certainly, there's already mention of taxi drivers etc. trying to refuse access to guide dog users, so the fact that it's already been ruled illegal... that link should at least be mentioned. I'll get to it. -- Sarrandúin ^{[ Talk + Contribs ]} 03:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Harness and lead picture

I've added a picture of a harness and lead, which I think was sorely needed in the article. However, The lengthy discription in the caption ought to be worked into the article at some point, but I don't have the time, so if someone could do that, that would be nice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hurricane Omega (talk • contribs) 23:02, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Traffic Lights

Being that dogs are color blind, I suppose they can't be taught how to help a blind person cross the street. How do they do it? Do they just listen for the traffic to change direction, or does the dog help them figure out when no more cars are coming? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk • contribs) 20:24 July 15, 2007

The handler listens to the traffic and other people at the crosswalk, then tells the dog "forward" when they can go. It is then up to the dog to determine if any cars or anything present are a danger and disobey if appropriate. Many large city intersections have tones to help visually-impaired folk determine when it's time to go too. Sarrandúin ^{[ Talk + Contribs ]} 23:02, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

"Article deals primarily with the United States and does not represent a worldwide view of the subject."-tag

I am a guide dog handler from Austria (Europe). The article represents only the situation in the USA, other countries/continents are hardly mentioned or most times completely disregarded in the article. 90.146.81.102 17:51, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. The article could use more info on the laws regarding assistance dogs in various countries, but it is not particularly US-centric. From what I understand, the information in the article also covers guide dogs in Austria and European nations- for example, in the US, it is wholly illegal to deny access to a guide dog and handler where the public is invited, but the article only mentions this in a small section after stating the laws vary widely worldwide. Also, I don't think the training differs much worldwide... and the section here is quite vague, in any case. If you think it's missing something, however, feel free to edit it in! Sarrandúin ^{[ Talk + Contribs ]} 18:54, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe Sarranduin is correct, the article is not US-centric, but could be improved by expansion of that includes other perspectives. Wikipedia is all about adding more content. Jeepday (talk) 03:36, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Juno harness

Can someone knowledgable about the subject add some mention of a "Juno harness" and its function to the section about training? There was a clue about this object on Jeopardy! (Double Jeopardy! Round clue 20) and there appears to be no mention of it on Wikipedia and only a couple scanty references on the Web. Thanks! Robert K S (talk) 19:38, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Link issues

in the Guide dog accessibility section there are two links that have serious issues. This link "...ruled that the ban on dogs does not apply to those used for guide work,[3]..." takes the person who click on it to this site: http://menmedia.co.uk/asiannews/sport/football/manchester_united/s/180/180595_reds_stars_suffer_video_nasty.html which has nothing to do with guide dogs or Islam in any way. This one:https://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/_ato2004-2006/2006/Decreto/D5904.htm is flagged by Firefox as being insecure content meaning Firefox users can't access it. Can these links be fixed so that they show the correct information and all users can access it? Tydoni (talk) 17:58, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I noticed the link issue for reference [3] as well. Menmedia.co.uk has two articles related to service dogs and Muslims (below). I believe the second link is the one that is the correct reference in this case.

• Drivers fined for refusing blind passenger
• Guide dogs not haram, rules Shariah

In regard to the link issue for reference [2] being insecure, to say that "Firefox users can't access it" is incorrect. Users can choose to access the site by clicking on "I understand the risks" and adding the certificate. Unfortunately, the error message will scare most away even though the site is valid. It's possible that the installation of the certificate wasn't properly completed on the server hosting the site and this is what's causing the error. I'm hardly an expert on this, however, so that may not be the case. There's an easy fix available; simply drop the security off the URL so it becomes http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/_Ato2004-2006/2006/Decreto/D5904.htm. The link will work perfectly fine with no security errors.

I don't know who, if anyone is maintaining this page. If these links aren't updated within a week, I'll go ahead and do it. I don't wish to step on anyone's toes but I also want to make sure that people have access to accurate data.

Rebecca (talk) 07:47, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and updated the page. I didn't want someone else to run into the same issue.

Rebecca (talk) 07:56, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

First use

On several websites i've found refrences to a mural found in Herculaneum showing a blind man being guided by a dog dated to AD79, should this be mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.31.192 (talk) 23:31, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Certainly, the International Guide Dog Federation, the CNIB, and even this blog refer to ancient Roman murals depicting guide dogs. ^Mac Tíre _Cowag 14:21, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Opposition to guide dogs

IP 41.* has expressed the concern that the section entitled until now Muslim objections "seems irrelevant and out of place" (edit summary). I cannot agree that substantial opposition to the use of guide dogs, reported in reliable sources and properly referenced, is irrelevant to an article about guide dogs. I accept that the placement of the subsection could be improved. I note that the second paragraph of that section has been tagged unsourced since August 2011. Thus I will restore just the first paragraph of the section with a different title and disposition. The second paragraph should only be restored if reliable sources can be provided. Further discussion here of course entirely welcome. --Mirokado (talk) 21:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Initial edit completed, I will "probably" tidy up other refs too. I have also removed the Daily Telegraph ref. Although very interesting it was an opinion piece rather than news and referred to improper imposition of religious views by a public servant in general rather than discrimination against guide dogs and their owners in particular. In order to justify "many" in the content, I have added a quote from the reference referring to the "widespread" occurrence of this problem. --Mirokado (talk) 21:29, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Dog Breeds

The article sites Yorkshire terriers as a breed which are commonly used breed, which startled me; is there a reference for that? -- AK2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.66.179 (talk) 16:18, 26 October 2012 (UTC)