Talk:Emo

}} }}

Mainstream popularity: Early 2000s–present?

Can someone please explain to me how exactly Emo is still mainstream? There is no is no visible mainstream "Emo scene" anymore and there hasn't been one since it died out around 2007/2008. If it's still mainstream, then how come the most recent info on here is about when it broke out in 2002 and 2003. I honestly tried to find info to update it and show its status 2010-now but there really is none. Is it safe to take away the "present" part or is there any info someone can find to show there's still a large scene around that I must be blind to? For the most part, the "big" Emo bands from back then like My Chemical Romance have largely moved to a more mainstream pop-y sound as opposed to their older stuff. 30 Seconds to Mars are still Emo is some regards I suppose, but definitely not like their older stuff. Same with Paramore. Same with Taking Back Sunday. Fall Out Boy have broken up for the members to pursue solo projects but their last album was not Emo at all. Panic At the Disco have both gone under the radar (As opposed to when they broke out in early 2000) AND moved away from their Emo sound. While other formerly "big" bands like Jimmy Eat World, Funeral for a Friend, Dashboard Confessional, Hawthorne Heights, Lostprophets, The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, and Story of the Year have pretty much died or are flying way under the radar. So, I guess remove "present" all together or put something like "Mainstream popularity: Early 2000s. Underground:2010-present" or find some info saying it's still as big and mainstream as it was back in 2002 please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.38.184.100 (talk • contribs) 19:50, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Your personal opinions on the subject are irrelevant. If you want to declare it no longer popular, you need a reliable source supporting that claim. As mentioned here, plenty of acts lumped in with "emo" continue to enjoy mainstream popularity, and the style continues to make headlines. --IllaZilla (talk) 20:26, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Not to actively agree with the anon about these bands 'dying', but I am curious as to what reliable sources still say and publicise about emo in the last 4-5 years. It does seem the term 'emo' has dropped out of favour in the media. So I may do some research into how it's used in the past few years. I have two 2009 sources about 30 Seconds to Mars which rooted from this discussion about whether they are emo or not. ("Kings and Queens," the thudding arena-emo single, ...a cross between Linkin Park's grungy emo-pop and U2's brand of commercial rock) And from work I've done on Funeral For a Friend's article I've found sources which still look at them as emo.

Internationally, I've seen awful stories like this in Iraq reported March 2012. And from some of the older but ongoing issues I've seen in the news it appears that emo, at least on a subcultural level is still very much alive. Jonjonjohny (talk) 21:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Jonjonjohny. I honestly don't think I've heard as much about Emo music in the past 5 years as it was back in say 2003. And to a certain extent, I also agree with the topic maker. Looking at the article, the information on the music scene (Which I'm differentiating from the fashion scene) does seem to be limited to the early 2000's aside from the mention of Cash Cash's album in 2008. Are there any reliable stories anyone can find on the scene as a whole instead of about a few bands loosely linked to the genre?--P.4.P. No. 1 (talk) 03:23, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

After doing a bit of initial research I found two sources talking about The Used's new album Vulnerable. Emo-pop album misses the mark, despite noteworthy opening and end songs, Emo legends lose their musical plot. The Daily Nebraskan and The News Record with both titles and content highlight that this band is part of a declining style, maybe isn't helpful but a start. Then:

• Maybe you’ve been following fun.’s emo-fried, Queen-inspired power-pop since the trio brought together members of The Format, Steel Train and Anathallo in 2008.
• Kill Your Stereo consider Basement as punk/emo revival "combining elements of 90’s emo, punk rock and hardcore". This may help with a new section, something to do with emo in the 2010s returning to the original ascetics.
• You may have noticed that Texas emo legends (not many of those, are there?) At the Drive-In
• As anyone reading this probably knows, Funeral For A Friend is a band made of sheer emocore legend, due to their seminal albums "Casually Dressed And Deep In Conversation" and "Hours". But then this raises the question of whether Rock Freaks is a reliable source.

And some more international, I know there is an article for the Emo killings in Iraq. I do think this source or something of the like should be used to expand the paragraph in this article describing what it is about emos that the militia hate and deem wrong. This source is a bit more bias and emotive in its writing, but perhaps usable to say the issue could also be institutional? e.g.The paragraph starting "The Interior Ministry jump-started..." Also something new that Saudi Arabian emos are being barred from entering a university in their country.

And this was all only published in 2012. Jonjonjohny (talk) 21:41, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Guys, what are you talking about? Those latest articles only about emo in Far East (where it's may be just a fashionable subculture - not a mainstream music), but we're talking about the Western World (USA, Europe) and post-Socialist countries like Russia. I know in Russia was some blast of emo-pop and emo subculture in 2006-2008, lots of foreign bands like MCR, Fall Out Boy, and even (don't laugh!) Tokio Hotel were here - I don't talk about Russian bands like Origami and Neversmile - but then they're suddenly disappeared, like all of those emoboys and emogirls who matured and became hc-kids, hipsters, indie kids, yuppies or someone else. And the western bands distanced themselves from emo subculture and now trying to change their own musical style but they're now haven't the same attention as in the middle of 2000's, new emo-bands are just stop to appear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.134.45.82 (talk) 21:48, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree with his agreement. What emo band is popular in the mainstream. You can't even include the new emo bands that where charting in 2004-2006. Your so inaccurate, that you can't even admit that emo isn't popular in 2012. Just change it popular already or at least mention the band that where big in 2008 when it ended — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.61.3.101 (talk) 19:16, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

What you seem to forget is that bands closely associated with the emo hype of the 2000s My Chemical Romance, Paramore and 30 Seconds To Mars are at arena touring level of popularity, same goes to Fall Out Boy if they reformed and booked a tour that size tomorrow. They are not only continuing to tour but there is massive hype surrounding these bands follow up albums. And as for Jimmy Eat World, Dashboard Confessional, Sunny Day Real Estate and Motion City Soundtrack they all run on enough steam to keep playing and making a decent living off it so it's not like they are done. Also you could even say bands like La Dispute are reviving interests in the style in the underground as there is sources to consider them as emo. Jonjonjohny (talk) 11:00, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

But even still, can you honestly say that Emo is still "mainstream"? As in still have the chart topping popularity it did back in 2005? MCR have distanced themselves so far from Emo that they wouldn't touch it with a 50ft pole, 30 Seconds To Mars have largely moved away from their old Emo sound, Paramore more or less sounds the same and are still popular so I'll let you have that one and those other bands are nowhere near the size of the aforemantioned ones. You could even say that Taking Back Sunday have moved back to their old Emo sound from Tell All Your Friends with their recent album, so I'll even throw them in too. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to agree with you, as those are some of my favorite bands and I was (And still am) an 'Emo kid', but there's no way that you can say that the Emo music scene is still as big as it was during the early 2000's. It's not dead, but certianly not mainstream anymore. But on the whole, I agree with the topic starter, I beleive it should be changed to something like "Mainstream popularity: Early 2000's-Late 2000's Underground: 2010-present". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.52.167.23 (talk) 20:58, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Regardless of how highly it charts, music released by internationally-touring rock stars like Paramore and TBS, who have fanbases numbering in the millions, who headline the Warped Tour, who appear on the covers of industry magazines, and whose records are aggressively promoted by major record labels, can hardly be called "underground". I don't think you have any idea what the term "underground" means. --IllaZilla (talk) 21:26, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Is Paramore even emo? I assume most people consider them to be pop-punk. I agree that emo isn't at nearly the same level that it was in the 2000's, but we do need some reliable sources to verify this. – Confession0791 ^talk 15:18, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Many emos are cutters because they feel unloved — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lovemetomarrow (talk • contribs) 22:42, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

IllaZilla, I think you are the one who has no idea what people are talking about. This article is about emo as a whole, not about few bands that are still selling millions of albums. The subculture as a whole is not mainstream anynmore. Just becasuse Black Sabbath may headline some festivals, doesn't mean that early heavy metal is mainstream and constant on radio. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.190.80.245 (talk) 08:32, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

So true. — Confession0791 ^talk 21:19, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

The other thing to consider here is that it isn't a choice between strictly mainstream or underground. Emo is absolutely, certainly not underground. However, while it does hold a very heavy mainstream presence, and some bands continue to maintain their old sound and draw in massive crowds, the peak of emo's popularity seems to have passed, at least for now. So it's more like, "Mainstream popularity: Peaked from early 2000's-late 2000's."--¿3family6 _contribs 22:24, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

So in other words, 2000's? — Confession0791 ^talk 18:26, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

If we mean decade. 2000s could also mean century or millennium. I simply was following the wording used by the above editors.--¿3family6 _contribs 11:18, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Well I just discovered that "mainstream popularity" has been removed as a parameter on Template:Infobox music genre. It may need a source to be included in the article itself. — Confession0791 ^talk 13:52, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Suggestions

After further investigation into this subject, I have a few recommendations to modify the Emo article. Specifically the "Fashion and stereotype" and "Criticism and controversy" subsections.

Regarding the format used

1. Combine both the "Fashion and stereotype" and "Criticism and controversy" together. The reason being that some parts of "stereotype" section are talked about in the "criticism and controversy" subsection, namely suicide.
2. More information needs to be added to the "stereotypes" subsection. There is only one single run-on sentence that lists a few descriptive words.
3. Add on the "also read" option for the source. Nothing Feels Good: Punk Rock, Teenagers, and Emo by Andy Greenwald as over fifty percent of the cited sources are from this lone book.
4. Add an actual picture of an Emo (near the "Fashion and stereotypes" subsection) instead of just a link to an "authentic Emo portal".

Regarding actual content

1. In the "stereotypes" part in the "Fashion and stereotypes" subsection, even from the own sources provided, I suggest that more information/details be added. "The Emo is often going around talking about the superiority of his taste in music and his “distaste for mainstream media" and "mainstream bands" to others. Spend time alone, being sullen with self." are good examples. Rickman, Tracy, A.; Solomon, Michael R. (October 19th). "Anomie Goes Online: The Emo Microculture" (PDF). ArcWebsite.org. Retrieved 11/3/12. 
2. In the Fashion section of the "Fashion and Stereotypes" subsection it should be noted that most Emos purchase clothing from garage sales (likely so they can mend it to their preference) and their style can be compared to that of Hot topic which tries to sell clothing styles that Emo prefer. Bailey, Brian (2006). Contemporary Youth Culture. Greenwood: Westport. pp. 338–342. ISBN 978-0313327162. 
3. Another point to add in the Fashion section of the "Fashion and Stereotypes" subsection is that Emos prefer to dress like their favorite bands persons do. Bailey, Brian (2006). Contemporary Youth Culture. Greenwood: Westport. pp. 338–342. ISBN 978-0313327162. 
4. The term "Stereotype" is too derogotory for a website that bases itself off a professional encyclopedia. I suggest that either the subsection be called only "Fashion" or to remove the section/scentence entirely.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Faultproof21 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Gender bias

There is no gender bias for emos i believe this is no correct and must removed. emos also accept the equality between males and females. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultrafaster (talk • contribs) 12:51, 26 November 2012‎ (UTC)

Many reliable sources point out gender bias in emo with regard to there being very few women in emo bands, their lack of active voice in songs' subject matter, and the one-sided "lonely boy's aesthetic" of emo songs. However, sources also note that there are plenty of female emo fans. Whether you personally believe this is irrelevant; it is reliably sourced. --IllaZilla (talk) 17:07, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

New Found Glory emo?

I honestly dont see New Found Glory as an emo band at all i see them as a pop punk band like everyone else someone should change it if the lock wasent on there — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.54.133.78 (talk) 04:01, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Post-Emotional Hardcore Punk Rock

I believe, that instead of grouping the multitude of bands described as "Emo" by this page, their should be a new genre created named "Post-Emo". This genre would include bands that have tooken inspiration from the original Emocore bands but have changed the sound of Emocore, but that cannot be accuratley described as "Emo-Pop". I belive this should happen because a music genre's sound cannot change, but it can evolve into a new form. Dj21299 (talk) 00:06, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Cap'n Jazz

How does the 90's emo section not make reference to Cap'n Jazz? They were extremely influential, and their members went on to be in a number of the bands mentioned later in the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.226.170 (talk) 01:28, 3 April 2013 (UTC)