Talk:Dubstep

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Chillstep link

The link to chillstep in the infobox redirects back to dubstep. Also, there's no mention of it at all in the rest of the article. SierraXV (talk) 04:25, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

The infobox seems to have accumulated quite a bit of cruft. Removed. Kaini (talk) 12:25, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

I was quite disappointed to see that one of the most popular subgenres of dubstep doesn't even get a mention let alone it's own page. If anyone wanted more info on chillstep they'd have to go somewhere else besides wikipedia which is a shame because chillstep is definitely notable from reliable sources and distinct from dubstep and its other subgenres. Fans of dubstep are not necessarily fans of chillstep and vice versa. There are many musicians whose genre is only defined as chillstep yet, the lack of mention of chillstep on the dubstep page stands out as misleading and incomplete. I'll look into possibly creating a stand alone wiki page for Chillstep and interlinking it with the dubstep and affiliated subgrenre pages. Admiralfoxlee (talk) 04:04, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Gorestep

Hey, I was thinking of adding an article to the genre titled 'Gorestep' I have an article too about it and it's been growing as a subgenre in itself. Let me know if you'd need more or better soursed articles 120.147.37.23 (talk) 18:45, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Borgore brings 'Gorestep' to The Blue Notework

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Decline/death of dubstep

Interest in dubstep has declined dramatically since 2011. Anyone else think the genre's death needs its own section? - HappyWaldo (talk) 12:16, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

@HappyWaldo:, I agree. I found this article, published all the way back in 2016, that argues it happened around that time. I've added this to the main article

By 2016, the genre had declined drastically in popularity, particularly in the United States. <ref name="dubstepdeadpitchfork">{{cite web|last1=Sherborne|first1=Philip|title=Popping the Drop: A Timeline of How EDM’s Bubble Burst|url=https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1086-popping-the-drop-a-timeline-of-how-edms-bubble-burst/|website=[[Pitchfork.com]]|publisher=Conde Nast|accessdate=23 January 2018|date=5 April 2016}}</ref>

-- Gokunks (Speak to me) 09:45, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@R9tgokunks: I think we should change this section title to "Decline in Mainstream Popularity" considering the genre is still very popular. The current title implies a global decline in popularity whereas the 'underground' (rather, the non-brostep) dubstep community is thriving. The genre certainly isn't dead. - Eartaker (talk) 22:12, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

-- NuclearCouch I agree, we need to get an edit on this it's very misleading as of current. Dubstep is still an extremely popular sub-genre of EDM and has grown into the mainstream in terms of live electronic music events. You can't go to a EDM music festival nowadays without hearing dubstep. NuclearCouch (talk) 19:36, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Heres a good article on how dubstep is actually very alive from the words of Zha, owner of Fent Plates, White Peach, and Yellow Flower. https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/dubstep-back-at-cutting-edge This section needs major revisions in general, the sex assault case isn't relevant and the other mentioned artists activities aren't indicative of the genre as a whole. Surprisingly Skream and Loefah moving onto different genres isn't mentioned here despite both of them being very instrumental figures. Also shouldn't this be part of the History section? Eartaker (talk) 08:51, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

This could be added, though i'm not 100% sure about its reliability. As many people have said, dubstep isn't really dying, it's just not mainstream. I suggest that the 'Decline in popularity' section should be changed to 'Decline in the mainstream' or some other topic to better represent the genre's status. In this section, Rusko's new EP could be added () and Truth in general().

Micro (Talk) 14:03, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

@MicroPowerpoint:Yes I do agree that this section should have been about dubstep's relevance in the mainstream and not in general, I originally asked about that in an earlier reply. What about the article seems dubious? I don't think either of Rusko or Truth's new releases are an indication of the scenes health, thats just two artists. Rusko and Truth are more mainstream, but this section should be about the scene overall. There have been ~40 releases this month alone (if you think the Reddit community /r/realdubstep does a good job at cataloging), plenty of which are on major labels. There isn't much mainstream presence, but there's quite a lot going on in the underground. Eartaker (talk) 09:02, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

While Reddit isn't a good source to use, you could get some info and from the subreddit you stated and see if any of the songs got any coverage. The decline from mainstream could also feature brostep and riddim releases such as Excision, Dion Timmer, Dubloadz, etc as those genres are still relatively popular and there should be reliable coverage on recent releases such as Excision's newest album. Pair that with the references I linked above and the Red Bull article and it should be good. I found some more potentially usable references for this section, including three references for Capsa's Ghost Town EP (2017) and one for Ganja White Night.. Basically the section can be reworked into saying how although dubstep has left the mainstream, various artists still produce the genre, though brostep/riddim tends to be a much more popular subgenre compared to "real" dubstep.

Micro (Talk) 14:32, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Yeah Reddit itself is obviously not a good source, but I think its a decent reflection of the state of the culture, especially now that dubstepforum is less active. Sites like Duploc and Trusik give very regular coverage in the form of reviews and interviews for the more underground sounds in the scene, e.g. https://trusik.co.uk/2018/03/02/soukah-windowlicka-ep-rare7/ or https://duploc.com/artkl034/. Charts like Beatport have "deep dubstep" as a popular category of "leftfield bass" https://www.beatport.com/genre/leftfield-bass/85/top-100. Yeah thats exactly what this section should be about, the presences is weak in the mainstream but its still being pushed in the underground. Eartaker (talk) 04:06, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

While those sites are pretty neat because they actually give coverage to underground artists/releases, i don't think either of them are usable as they both look like they are run by fans and dubstep enthusiasts instead of having actual editorial oversight or staff like sites such as Your EDM, Dancing Astronaut, Billboard, etc. While you can't use beatport as a reference as it is both a WP:BADCHARTS and a primary source with no info, you can use reliable sites that have covered the beatport chart additions of deep dubstep, leftfield bass (I have no idea what that is), garage and grime. You previously mentioned that there is no mention of Skream and Loefah moving onto different genres and although i couldn't really find anything about Loefah, I found two references that are usable to just mention that Skream moved away from dubstep to techno and house. The main thing is to pretty much structure and actually construct the section that includes everything talked about here.

Micro (Talk) 10:24, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Here's a little mockup section for a replacement for the "Decline in popularity" section, the riddim part might make more sense to be added to the "Brostep and American developments" section. Would need further editing.

Decline in mainstream popularity

By 2016, dubstep had declined drastically in popularity, particularly in the United States, where many formerly successful dubstep artists became most popular. Artists such as Skrillex, for instance, moved on to producing tracks for trap and pop artists, while artists such as Mount Kimbie and James Blake shifted their sounds from post-dubstep into more experimental or soulful electronic influenced music. Early influencers and pioneers of dubstep such as Skream and Loefah moved away from the genre, moving onto other genres instead. Loefah stopped playing and producing dubstep and moved onto UK bass music, founding his record label Swamp81 in the process. Skream shifted away from dubstep, choosing to instead produce play largely house and techno music in his DJ sets and releasing various techno songs on Alan Fitzpatrick's record label We Are The Brave.

Various artists continue to produce the genre, including British bass music producer Caspa, who had released his Ghost Town EP released on 17 November 2017. On 4 April 2018, British brostep producer Rusko released his first solo extended play in three years titled Has Made 5 More Songs, which was described as a grime and reggae-infused tribute to the production techniques that popularised dubstep a decade prior. Examples of relatively new artists who produce the genre include Belgian duo Ganja White Night and New Zealand-based duo Truth.

Zha, owner of dubstep and grime record labels Fent Plates, White Peach, and Yellow Flower believed that 2018 and the following years would provide "another golden era" similar to the mid-to-late 2000s with the rise of artists similar to Skream, Mala, Caspa and Rusko. In August 2018, American online music store Beatport added several dubstep-related subgenres to its genre catalogue including 'leftfield bass', 'garage/bassline/grime' and 'deep dubstep'. The subgenres were added to expand upon Beatport's bass music section, which (since 2010) had previously only included dubstep.

In the mid-2010s, riddim emerged as a subgenre of dubstep, with Subtronics, an American producer of the subgenre, describing the subgenre as counter mainstream, saying that "it was cool because it wasn't cool", ultimately describing the subgenre as a re-hashing of the old school style of UK dubstep being introduced back into American culture. the subgenre is usually composed at a tempo of 140–150 beats per minute, with Dave Jenkins of UKF describing the subgenre as Deep, roomy and moody.

Micro (Talk) 11:24, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Many of the artists listed are red links and should not be mentioned (non-notable). We also need to keep some perspective. See the tiny spike in early 2018? That's the Datsik controversy. That's the most exposure dubstep has received in a long time, hence why it was originally mentioned in the article (has since been removed by another editor, calling it irrelevant information). Enough time has passed for dubstep's decline to be measured and documented. We need even more time before we can assess whether it is or will experience a "renaissance" of any real importance. 01:23, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Yea, the section does need heavy editing, most of the artists listed should either have a wiki article or should have reliable articles about how they make riddim. I was the one who removed the datsik stuff because, in my opinion, it really had nothing to do with dubstep, Datsik just so happened to be a dubstep producer. I was pretty sure that the whole Datsik thing didn't give much exposure to dubstep, because that happened in March, so I looked up a google search restricted to the time frame of the spike (6 May 2018 - 23 June 2018) and it might be because how Deadpool 2 had a whole thing going on with dubstep, I dunno, I didn't see the movie. The whole "renaissance" thing is just an opinion of a riddim artist, pretty much just a placeholder. Micro (Talk) 06:00, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Dubstep has made a bit of a resurgence into the mainstream again thanks to mega radio star Marshmello AKA Chris Comstock - Previously known as DotCom, he produced mostly dubstep from 2010-2014, wasn't too popular and began a new alias as Marshmello which clearly took off. The Marshmello alias "sound" has revolved mostly around a "happy" "joyful" vibe, probably closest in genre to Future Bass. In 2019, I suppose mello decided he wanted to change it up and started working on a track with popular dubstep riddim producer SVDDEN DEATH under the name of "Sell Out". . "Sell Out" did very well for a dubstep track in current times ranking at 36 on the Billboard Hot Dance/Electronic charts.. The track has over 3.1 million plays on youtube, an amount no other song belonging to the dubstep genre has reached since Torro Torro - Make a Move (Skrillex Remix) in 2016. There was much backlash from Mellos typical fans, as they were not used to this style of music, as well as backlash from Svdden Death fans as they didn't want to believe Marshmello had any part in the song because again, it didn't really sound like his style. Following the release of Sell Out, Marshmello and Svdden Death began working on a new collab titled Crusade. It released February 24th, 2020 and did very well on youtube amassing over 2 million viewers. In June 2020, popular dubstep-riddim producer Virtual Riot collaborated with Skrillex, Ty Dolla $ign, and Ant Clemons on a tribute track titled "Sullen Sunday" NuclearCouch (talk) 18:50, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2018

My grammar is terrible but if someone can figure out how to put this to paper, heres the info you. The entire "Decline in popularity" section needs to be edited. "By 2016, dubstep had declined drastically in popularity, particularly in the United States" This is wrong, Dubstep declined in the UK but Brostep (Which in the states is still called Dubstep by most) has continued to thrive in America and has reached monumental popularity. A dubstep artist that has been around in the states named "Excision" has created his own event company and runs his own all dubstep music festivals in the US Dubstep continues to thrive on soundcloud in the US with older british artists like Hatcha and Dodge and Fuski creating a new label, "Disciple Records" Disciple is home to many of the very popular names in dubstep today (Virtual Riot, Barely Alive, Panda Eyes, Modestep, PhaseOne, 12th Planet, Fox Stevenson, etc). Many of the other awesome names in dubstep are on another label, "Never Say Die Records", also created by another extremely popular british dubstep artist "Skism" (see the pattern here, dubstep is thriving in america because the brits brought it here)- The label is Home to Zomboy, Spag Heddy, Dr Ozi, Eptic, RickyxSan, Space Laces, Must Die, Laxx, Svdden Death - You will see these names all over US EDM festivals. There is also Riddim now, riddim is considered the dark, sort of metaly sub-genre of brostep/dubstep. Both of the top popular labels mentioned above (Discple and NSD) have separate junior labels that are primarily for these Riddim producers to prove themselves as they are newest to the game (Disciple Round Table and Never Say Die Black Label). Riddim is based around wonky/funky rhythms, usually very repetitive - artists like MONXX, Excision, Subtronics, Svdden Death, Murda and others have brought it to the EDM mainstream.

This piece "In March 2018, Canadian producer Datsik became embroiled in a sexual assault controversy, resulting in public furor and cancellation of all Datsik tour dates; in response, he stepped down from his record label.[122]" is true but sort of weirdly thrown in there - this section really needs some work. NuclearCouch (talk) 19:59, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Get some actual reliable sources and references and see if anything you just said can be verified. If so, the article might be edited to support it. Micro (Talk) 01:48, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

added what I could in terms of references, too busy moderating the EDM subreddits to fix this trash wiki page as well NuclearCouch (talk) 02:31, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

None of these, except for the Your EDM and UKF ones are useable in a good-article class wiki page. Micro (Talk) 02:53, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Well I guess this page is never getting fixed then. NuclearCouch (talk) 03:21, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

It's a level-5 vital article, highly important in terms of electronic music and has the second highest rating-class (behind featured article) on Wikipedia. It'll do fine without your help. Micro (Talk) 03:35, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: This appears to be already answered. Closing for bot/category purposes. Dolotta (talk) 06:25, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Throughout the years, it has become evident to me that mainstream dubstep has seen a complete decline in popularity, and that the most popular genre surrounding dubstep today is titled "riddim", which is a subgenre of dubstep. Is it plausible to add additional information of the subgenre "riddim" to this article, and have it retain its good article status? My problem is that this article is simply looking to be more and more outdated as time passes, and that "riddim" as a subgenre seems to be replacing dubstep in the dubstep community as whole. Thanks.

It is plausible. I did a little thing a while ago (scroll up for that garbage), but the main problem was that to add an entire thing about riddim, it has to stay consistent with the rest of the article and that would be a bit of work. The actual Riddim article is only a start-class article and probably has a bunch of problems with it, while this is a good-class article. Also, riddim isn't replacing dubstep, it's just a micro-genre that became a trend. Micro (Talk)

I think it is reasonable for Riddim to have its own article. Its stylistically distinct enough from its parent genre, and there are record labels that are large and focus pretty much entirely on Riddim (i.e. Never Say Die: Black Label). Yes, dubstep seems to have had it's time in the 'mainstream' and is now back to being primarily enjoyed by people who already like bass heavy EDM in the first place, but that's how it's spent most of it's history regardless. Riddim has not replaced more traditional Dubstep, there are still plenty of Dubstep artists who do not make Riddim. I will not dispute that it is popular or trendy within the scene right now, but it's not replacing Dubstep proper. -Euphoria42 (talk) 22:54, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

StevenTsoukas (talk) 01:46, 13 April 2020 (UTC) "How to Talk to Your Kids About Riddim | Insomniac". Retrieved 2020-04-12. "Disciple Round Table". EDM Wiki. Retrieved 2020-04-13. D'Errico, Mike (2015-01-06). "Electronic Dance Music in the Dubstep Era". Oxford Handbooks Online. doi:10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199935321.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199935321-e-74. Retrieved 2020-04-13. Härter, Christoph (2008-01-01). "The Dub Renaissance – Reflections on the Aesthetics of Dub in Contemporary British Music". Multi-Ethnic Britain 2000+: 263–280. doi:10.1163/9789401206587_016. StevenTsoukas (talk) 01:46, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Really still not much change to this page, sad to see. It does not accurately represent recent dubstep in the slightest. The riddim section especially should not only be 2012–2013, it is still very popular today, probably the most popular micro genre and I have given so many sources to show that as have others. I don't really agree with it having an entirely separate page, its very much a part of dubstep and many of the artists also make non-riddim dubstep. Also, the micro genres go even deeper with poly riddim, melodic riddim, briddim (brostep riddim). I suggest the name of the section be changed to Dubstep-Riddim and merge most of the stuff from the existing riddim page over. NuclearCouch (talk) 19:06, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Riddim (EDM) into Dubstep

recentism, not enough solid WP:RS for full article, and it's also essentially dubstep renamed by Americans with no awareness of the music's history. Acousmana (talk) 11:01, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Riddim is very much so part of Dubstep. It is a micro genre, as are Polyriddim, Chillstep, Gorestep, Briddim. Chillstep doesn't have its own page, neither do any of the others. Those who make riddim consider themselves dubstep or dubstep-riddim artists - recent pioneers of the dubstep industry like Virtual Riot deserve to have their name on this page, not the riddim one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NuclearCouch (talk • contribs) 19:12, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

• Disagree with the merge. It's pretty specific and still-living subgenre of dubstep with distinct sound. Sources seems ok. I actually frustrated that most dubstep offshot articles were merged into the parent, instead of being developed further. And even there they've been merged into history paragraphs instead of staying under subgenres. I'd even say it's disruptive. Solidest (talk) 14:02, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

• Also disagree with the merge. Riddim dubstep has so much more substance to it than what's easily accessible. Riddim is very misunderstood by most of the EDM community, and generally people don't want to dig deeper into riddim than Virtual Riot's or Excisions discography, despite them being more "dubstep" artists than anything. I would honestly say that Virtual Riot's "Pray for Riddim" EP is hardly even riddim- but that's my take. (No disrespect to those people or artists, it's all good music, just not riddim.) I think it should be mentioned on this page, as riddims recent influence on dubstep as a whole is certainly notable, but the world of riddim goes so far beyond the reach of "Dubstep" trying to articulate what specifically riddim is or it's appeal when compared to "heavy dubstep," "wonky dubstep," etc. is like speaking in code. (Even those mini-genres just mentioned have riddim influence. It's hard to pin down.) I think Riddim is a sub-genre, but truthfully cannot be defined- which is why it deserves to have it's own page.

Closing, given the consensus not to merge. Klbrain (talk) 17:48, 2 August 2021 (UTC)