Talk:Athanasius of Alexandria

'peacock language'

I noticed that a quotation from Cornelius Clifford and others that took a lot of research to achieve accuracy of these differently reported events by different factions.... is changed unnecessarily and the original referred to as 'peacock language'..... In dealing with historical research keeping to the originals is necessary. I do not think you appreciate the research and sifting that took place to get the Page to this level...... MacOfJesus (talk) 18:35, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

None of the WP:peacock words were removed from "quotations", as you claim [1]. In Wikpedia, we summarize sources in our own words, we do not directly copy-paste from sources. In doing so, we are expected to follow Wikipedia guidelines. Vanjagenije (talk) 20:40, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

I did not say anything was removed..... but wording was changed.....unnecessarily... As I said, I do not think you realise the continual effort it takes to keep historical accuracy..... MacOfJesus (talk) 07:43, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

To give an example of changing language / turn of phrase; After the Council was completed a team from the Council executed the decisions of the Council...... could not be changed to; executed the findings of the Council..... The team had not the authority to execute.... but rater they spoke to the Emperor the findings of the Council. They reported to an Emperor who could cut their heads off, and wanted to... So they could not finalise anything.... MacOfJesus (talk) 21:22, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Athanasius as Patriarch.

The Council of Nicaea 325, declared the positions of the Bishop of Alexandria to be Patriarch.... This is key to Athanasius' position. Some called him 'Pope'.. This declaration at the beginning is important in understanding the Rôle he held. Hence, this deletion should be undone....This is quite necessary in lead.. MacOfJesus (talk) 15:27, 27 July 2020 (UTC). If this has been discussed, surely I should have been communicated with, prior.. MacOfJesus (talk) 15:58, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Calling Athanasius the Pope of Alexandria is ahistorical. While he may have been called Father, an affectionate and appropriate title for any ordained minister, and certain forms of the word father can evolve to the word "pope" the ecclesiastical title of Pope, with a capital "P," was asserted much later, after the Great Schism in 1054 and in direct opposition to the long held Roman Catholic doctrine of primacy for the Bishop of Rome. I am aware of no evidence indicating that Athanasius was not in faithful communion with Rome. Much better to call him Patriarch. To do otherwise is to read the controversies beginning in the 11th century backwards to a time when the didn't exist. JohnGHissong (talk) 04:53, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

@JohnGHissong That is incorrect.

(From Patriarch of Alexandria article)

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This office has historically held the title of Pope—Πάπας (Papas), which means "Father" in Greek and Coptic—since Pope Heraclas of Alexandria, the 13th Alexandrine Bishop (227–248), was the first to associate "Pope" with the title of the Bishop of Alexandria.

The word pope derives from the Greek πάππας "father". In the early centuries of Christianity, this title was applied informally (especially in the east) to all bishops and other senior clergy. In the west it began to be used particularly for the Bishop of Rome (rather than for bishops in general) in the sixth century; in 1075, Pope Gregory VII issued a declaration widely interpreted as stating this by-then-established convention. By the sixth century, this was also the normal practice in the imperial chancery of Constantinople.

The earliest record of this title was regarding Pope Heraclas of Alexandria (227–240) in a letter written by his successor, Pope Dionysius of Alexandria, to Philemon (a Roman presbyter): "τοῦτον ἐγὼ τὸν κανόνα καὶ τὸν τύπον παρὰ τοῦ μακαρίου πάπα ἡμῶν Ἡρακλᾶ παρέλαβον." This is translated, "I received this rule and ordinance from our blessed father/pope, Heraclas." According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the earliest recorded use of "pope" in English is in an Old English translation (c. 950) of Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People, "Þa wæs in þa tid Uitalius papa þæs apostolican seðles aldorbiscop." In modern English, "At that time, Pope Vitalian was chief bishop of the apostolic see."

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Pope is a title of Coptic/Greek origin. Furthermore, the Copts, being pre-Chalcedonian and thus wholly unaffected by the Great Schism, refer to all their canonized Alexandrian Patriarchs as Popes, so your argument about the title being used only after 1054 by the E.O. is null.

Also, it is clear that you made that edit with no small amount of disingenuous Roman Catholic bias, since you changed his denomination to Catholic, when at his time all churches were one.

Please do not make such edits and strong claims on this platform without being informed, seemingly trying to push low-end apologetics. Even though saint Athanasius' entitlement or not to the word Pope in this article is close to irrelevant, it is not for you to change it in this manner. ValidUsernamefr (talk) 13:07, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:37, 8 March 2022 (UTC)