Talk:Arab diaspora

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I'm surprised the mass and wholly significant Yemenite (mostly Hadrami) emigration to various parts of Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore isn't mentioned in this article...it brought a very distinct Arab facet into these already very rich cultures. -Mokha24.18.249.133 23:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

And France ?

No mention of France!!! It's a surprise! France is the second non-Arab country in the world, after Brazil, to have the largest arab community! There are 6.000.000 arabs in France that means 10 % of french population is arab or is from arab origin (mostly algerians like Zinedine Zidane), this is explained by the fact that Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia are former french colonies! It's important to mention France.86.70.90.104 (talk) 16:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Brazil does not have 15 million Arabs

Brazil is NOT 7% Arab, it is 0.7% Arab

Proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Brazil —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.248.2 (talk) 20:19, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

180000 arabs Immigrated to Brazil in the 20th century. Lebanese made up 50% of the arab immigrants in the 20th century. According to the Lebanese/Brazilian articles there are 10-15 million people of Lebanese descent in Brazil. Logic would have it that the total number of arabs in Brazil is around 25-30 million. Making it +-15% Arab. Making Brazil the most Arab country outside Arabia. Keep in mind that this do not take into account Illegal immigration, which would probably increase the number of Arabs to about 40 Million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.134.107 (talk) 17:12, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

american bias

its probably because the article was written by an arab american of some sort thats why all of the material is about the americas. per centage wise there is a much more huge population of arabs in europe, yet theres almost no mention of it.

The entire 'Challenges' section

I have a very large problem with sentences like:

First: Suspicion of Arabs and Muslims has reached almost a paranoid proportion. Racism towards Arabs has reached new heights.

At the very least I would expect several citations of such instances linked to (I doubt it would be hard to find them) and a statistical analysis that it had indeed reached 'new heights'. It needs a geographical restriction (I presume there is none of this suspicion in, for example, Saudi Arabia). The nature and perpetrators of the suspicion also needs to be elaborated on and supported by evidence.

I suspect whosoever edited the section had genuine intentions but this is an encyclopedia and it needs to be backed up. Can someone add a tag? I am not sure which one it should have but it is obvious that this section is not up to standard.

The 'Second', 'Third' and 'Fourth' points are just drivel.

Since nothing has been added in way of citations in 3 years I have removed it. Rich Farmbrough, 03:31, 20 December 2010 (UTC).

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the first section

the first section of this article must be divided to branches with the head of the group name or nationality coz its doesnt look organized at all, i think its better if will be like the Arabic page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abdullah Alkendy (talk • contribs) 22:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

This article is really messed up

First of all Chaldeans are not Arabs. and that brings me to my second point: Not all residents of arab countries are ethnically arabs, most Iraqi refugees in europe are not arabs, most moroccans and algerians in europe are not arabs, most lebanese who live abroad do not identify themselves as arabs. and since when were arabs in israel part of the arab diaspora?user:ravi84mtalk 01:33, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

This is correct, this subject messes up a lots of things. For instance even Jewish refugees, who fled Arab countries for Israel were somehow related here as Arab diaspora. I think Arab diaspora should clearly embark Arab ethnic communities outside Middle East, not Chaldeans, Assyrians, Lebanese Maronites, Berbers etc.Greyshark09 (talk) 19:16, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Excuse me, but who exactly told you that the Maronites are not Arabs? You seem to take that as given.AhmadNN (talk) 15:59, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Israel should be removed from the list, as well as Iran

Arabs might be a minority in both these countries, but they are not in diaspora, just like the Hispanics in California are not in diaspora even though they speak Spanish. TFighterPilot (talk) 14:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Diaspora?

From Wiki's very own article on the term "Diaspora": "Originally the word referred exclusively to the Jewish diaspora after the Babylonian exile, but recently the word has also come to refer to other historical mass-dispersions of people with common roots, often particularly movements of an involuntary nature, such as the forced removal of Turkish Armenians and the African Trans-Atlantic slave trade, or the century long exile of the Messenians under Spartan rule."

1.5 Million Arabs Emigrating to the US to seek a better life simply doesn't not qualify as any sort of "Diaspora". If so, why not speak of the English, French or Spanish "Diaspora" in the Americas? 65.94.244.63 (talk) 15:33, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

True. But in the case of Palestinians for example the term Diaspora does make sense imho. Any ideas for a better title?--Rafy talk 10:09, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Problems with notable Arabs

That section needs either removal or major clean up for the following reasons:

1. Many are obviously not ethnically Arabs like [[Zinedine Zidane[[ who is Amazigh.
2. Having a Lebanese origin (for example) doesn't automatically qualify a person as an Arab. See Lebanese Identity, Egyptian identity, etc...--Rafy talk 10:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

First of all there is nothing called "Amazigh," maybe you mean Berber? Secondly, most of the Lebanese do identify as Arabs, as well as Egyptians and the rest of the Arab world. If you want to argue that a particular person is not Arab, then the burden of the proof is on you. We don't discard a general rule on the bases of a very few, marginal outliers.AhmadNN (talk) 15:53, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Limited article

I find this article actually very limited in its scope. An Arab diaspora needs far wider coverage than this very poor article. It should have a historical section (18th-19th early 20th century), modern Arab diaspora formation from sixties onwards (mostly economic, but also very much political considerations), a statistics section of Arab Diaspora per country (how many in USA, in Canada, in France, in Gabon, in Hong Kong etc, with adequate references, a clear presentation of non-Arab ethnicities who have immigrated from the Arab World (Kurds, Armenians, Assyrians and Syriacs, Berbers). Since these ethnicities are Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis, Egyptian, Algerian, Moroccan, carry Arab citizenships and are mostly Arabophone as well despite being of non-Arab ethnicities, they are technically a part of the Arab Diaspora (whether they accept it or not). It's not that you are an Arab citizen in your country with full rights, and the moment you set foot in Europe or USA, you are suddenly a non-Arab and detached from the notion of Arab Diaspora. Many go back to visit their families and homes in the Arab World with frequency. Almost all Kurds, Armenians, Assyrians and Syriacs, Berbers keep their earlier Arab citizenships and they do this by choice and remain part of the Arab Diaspora umbrella. I know this from Canada and I am sure this is the case in other countries as well (USA, France, England). They carry to this day Arab passports and are for all intents and purposes Arab citizens actually. But yes, they should be distinct, and should be categorized and their ethnicities noted within the Arab Diaspora article, without excluding them for good, which would be a gross oversight. There should also be at least a section for internal Arab diasporas, when Syrians and Lebanese immigrate to Saudi Arabia or UAE etc. There should also be a distinction between permenant Arab Diasporas in Europe and the States and Latin America and temporary Arab Diasporas say to African states. There are temporary Diasporas of Arab students studying by tens of thousands sent by their governments, the idea of الطالب المبتعث in USA, Canad, Britain etc. These also, are becoming bigger and bigger in number, and need a mention as temporary Arab Diaspora. This article has not done any justice to the importance of the subject unfortunately. werldwayd (talk) 20:05, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Objections on Arab descent of infobox personalities

Some colleagues have expressed misgivings about some of the personalities reflected in the infobox and are requesting deleting the photos in infobox until substantiation is provided for each and every person there. Kindly discuss whether individuals there are considered of Arab origin. Personalities are:

• Shakira - Colombian singer of Lebanese descent
• Carlos Slim - Mexican businessman of Lebanese descent
• Salma Hayek - Mexican of Lebanese descent
• Edward Said - American thinker of Palestinian descent
• Mohamed Al-Fayed - British businessman of Egyptian descent
• Antonio Saca - Salvadorian President of Palestinian descent
• Ralph Nader - American of Lebanese descent
• Naseem Hamed - British boxer of Yemeni descent
• Mari Alkatiri - East Timorian Vice president of Yemeni descent

Do these individuals of Arab descent. Do they identify themselves of Arabic descent? Are there better representations of Arab Diaspora personalities? Please discuss werldwayd (talk) 10:17, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with werldwayd, this page needs to be thoroughly checked. Just because someone's grandparent was from the arab origin, doesn't means that it makes the person a arab, especially when they are much more of "mexican", "columbian", in common. Otherwise everyone is a Indian or African first. Bladesmulti (talk) 13:15, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

This is an Article about the Arab diaspora, it makes sense to focus on their Arab heritage. And even if they identified more as non-Arab (which wasn't proven anyhow), that shouldn't make a difference, since we would refer to a Jewish person as a Jew even if he or she said I identify more as an American.AhmadNN (talk) 15:57, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

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Copyright problem removed

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Chad does not have 1.5 million Arabs

The link is dead and should be removed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.32.192.38 (talk) 18:24, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

According to the source it does. I've updated the citation of the CIA World Factbook, as the link is not dead, and added the latest figure from it to the article. It says ethnic groups, Arab, approximately 1.5 million, presumably those who have at least partial ancestry. If you have some other reliable source that contradicts this, please add it to the article. --IamNotU (talk) 19:13, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Removed references

I have removed the following citations from the article, because they did not support the statements that were attributed to them, or because material was deleted due to copyright violations. I'm putting them here in case they may be useful for something else, but please check that they meet the criteria for reliable sources before using them:

<ref>{{cite web |last1=Affan |first1=Heyder |title=Wajah peranakan Arab di Indonesia: Rizieq Shihab, politik identitas, dan pertanyaan tentang stereotip |url=https://www.bbc.com/indonesia/indonesia-42078427 |website=News Indonesia |publisher=BBC |accessdate=2019-04-25}}</ref>

<ref>{{cite web |last1=Sumandoyo |first1=Arbi |title="Mereka yang Habib dan yang Bukan Habib" |url=https://tirto.id/mereka-yang-habib-dan-yang-bukan-habib-chde |website=Tirto.id |publisher=Tito.id |accessdate=2019-04-25}}</ref>

<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.al-bab.com/bys/articles/talib95.htm|title=Hadramis in Singapore|last=Talib|first=Ameen Ali|date=November 1995|publisher=The British-Yemeni Society|accessdate=17 September 2011|deadurl=yes|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20110926233346/http://www.al-bab.com/bys/articles/talib95.htm|archivedate=26 September 2011|df=dmy}}</ref>

--IamNotU (talk) 23:51, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Figures for "Arabs" in Brazil are incorrect

I don't know from where people are getting the information that there are 6, 15 or even 20 million "Arabs in Brazil". These figures are not supported by official figures coming from the Brazilian censuses.

According to official figures from the Brazilian censuses, only 93,823 Syrians and Lebanese immigrated to Brazil, from 1884 to 1933. [1] The number of Arab (Syrians and Lebanese) immigrants in Brazil peaked in 1940, with only 45,793 people, and their number decreased to only 13,709 in 1990 [2] According to the 1940 Brazilian census, at that time only 107,074 Brazilians had been born to a Middle-Eastern father and native Arabs were only 46,105 and naturalized Brazilians, 5,447. Brazil had 41,169,321 inhabitants at the time of the census, so Arabs and their children were only 0.38% of Brazil's population in 1940. [3] Arab immigrants in Brazil have always been a very small community. Syrian and Lebanese immigration to Brazil peaked by 1950s, so there has been no recent Arab immigration to Brazil to justify any huge increase in their numbers in recent years [4]

According to the 2010 Brazilian census, there were only 12,336 Lebanese immigrants in Brazil; in 2000 they numbered 16,090 and in 1991, 17,187 - table 2 [5] Other Arab communities are so small that they are not even mentioned.

According to 2017 figures, Arab immigrants are not even listed among the 10 largest immigrant communites in Brazil (the 10th largest immigrant community in Brazil are Americans, with only 22,000 people; Arab citizens are not even listed) [6]

According to another 1999 survey by the sociologist, former president of the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics (IBGE), Simon Schwartzman, only 0.48% of the interviewed Brazilians claimed to have Arab ancestry, a percentage that, in a population of about 200 million of Brazilians, would represent around 960,000 people (much below the figures claimed in this article) [7]

As can be seen, there aren't 6, or 15 or 20 million "Arabs" living in Brazil. There are 12,336 Lebanese (2010 figures). Even if children or grandchildren of Arabs born in Brazil are counted, the number would be far from being of several millions, given that the Arab immigrant population in Brazil peaked in 1940, with only 45,793 people, which is a very small number to leave millions descendants (45,000 people leaving 6, 15 or even 20 million descendants is beyond human reproductive capacity).

The source used in this article claims that "According to estimates by the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics (IBGE), countersigned by the League of Arab States, Brazil has the largest Arab colony outside their countries of origin.". This is not true. The IBGE, which is responsible for the Brazilian census, does not ask about ancestry or family origin[8]. The 2010 census found only 12,336 Lebanese in Brazil and even smaller numbers of other Arabs, which are not even listed. - table 2 [9]. The IBGE never claimed that are millions of Arabs in Brazil. This is fake.

Then, figures about how many Brazilians have Arab ancestry are based on nothing (they seem to be fake news spread everywhere by interest group - these sources do not even explain from where they are taking such figures - they must explain where those figures are coming from, because they are contradicted by the Brazilian censuses). And finally, people born in Brazil are not "Arabs". Having a Lebanese great-great-grandfather does not make any person "Arab". These people are Brazilian citizens by birth and culture, not Arabs - and they are not counted as "Arabs" by the Brazilian censuses. Xuxo (talk) 04:23, 16 January 2021 (UTC)