Talk:Antananarivo

Old talk

Why was "the" University of Madagascar lower cased? IFAIAC, it should be "The". -- Zoe

I find this to be one of the best city names the world has to offer. Brutannica 00:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Who has put the IPA pronounciation at the beginning of the article? Obviously someone with no knowledge of the place - it is pronounced with the first and last vowels silent (like so many Madagascan places). In other words exactly as it used to be spelt. I am changing it.--AssegaiAli (talk) 18:17, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I would like to upload an audio file so that users can to listen to the pronunciation. On the English version of Wikipedia, is it acceptable to put the English pronuciation of a city in another country? Would you agree that this is the correct pronuciation in English? http://media.merriam-webster.com/soundc11/a/antan01g LHand 13:20, 7 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lhand27 (talk • contribs)

Lac

I looked at Antananarivo using the Google Earth program, and my impression was that it is by a lake. I will verify this and if necessary, edit this article to reflect the fact that it is on or near a sizeable lake.--Colin

There is a lake inside the city. I saw a painting from 100 years ago and it shows the lake being outside the city, but nowadays it is part of the city centre.

Incomplete article

The article makes no mention of the issues of colonization and its aftermath. The French colonization is described as beneficial : good roads, lovely places... But the reality isn't so nice. In 1947, after an insurrection of local inhabitatants, the French authorities killed thousands of people. It should be mentioned. -Anon.

While we are at it, mention the regime the French replaced; three quarters of a million people slaughtered in the early 19th century out of a population of about 2 and a quarter million - a lot of them tortured to death. And there is more. The main (or at least, one)issue of colonization is the issue of savagery vs. civilization.

An accessible account of what went on in pre-modern Madagascar is found in the second half of the well-researched historical novel "Flashman's Lady" by Geo. MacDonald Fraser, along with all the historical sources drawn on for the account, for further study (if you can stand it).

More to the point of this article, there is also a detailed description of Antananarivo. I think this article should tell us: what happened to the little palace of silver bells in the center of town where the mad queen lived and ruled her superstitious and terrified subjects? Is that it on the right of the great palace shown it the photograph? 76.2.154.213 (talk) 05:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

"Flashman's Lady" is not a valid resource for an objective discussion of the history of Madagascar because it draws on biased primary sources written by Malagasy Christians, missionaries and other Europeans but omits the views of the sampy guardians and the objective modern historians who have analyzed the whole situation in context. This is the case for most of the "popular history" on Madagascar out there (among the worst being Laidler's "Female Caligula: Ranavalona, Mad Queen of Madagascar" and the irresponsibly slanted history section of the "Lonely Planet Guide to Madagascar", which both sensationalize the reign of Ranavalona I). Balanced accounts are available in books like Ade Ajayi's "History of Africa," famed Madagascar historian Gwyn Campbell's "Economic History of Imperial Madagascar" and, most recently, "Madagascar: a short history" by Solofo Randrianja & Stephen Ellis. I can't agree that the expansion of the section on Malagasy history and colonization would reveal anything about "savagery vs civilization." There was savagery and civilization on both sides of the colonial divide. This article needs a lot of work, including particularly the history section, and there's much to be done to expand coverage of the people of Madagascar and their culture, history and modern state here on Wikipedia. I'm working on filling that gap and intend to do a copy-edit in the near future to improve all sections of this piece.

PS: Do your sources talk about what happened to the silver bells in the Tranovola (whose existence is disputed by the way)? One of the sources I read simply stated they were gradually "lost" over the first two years after the palace was built (most likely sold), although the primary sources are in disagreement about why the Tranovola got its name of "Silver Palace", many stating it was due to one or many silver nails used in its construction (according to them, there were no bells at all). A more meaningful discussion could be how and why the architectural style of the Tranovola emerged and what changes it (and later European-constructed buildings) inspired in architecture across Madagascar: history, not sensationalism. -- Lemurbaby (talk) 15:02, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Good response Shii (tock) 06:54, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Malagasy Scouting

Can someone render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Malagasy? Thanks! Chris 09:18, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Antananarivo

they also are known for what they do and how well they actaully do the job —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.106.4 (talk) 18:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Who? What? How? 76.191.135.66 (talk) 01:39, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The pronunciation given seems more like the pronunciation of the French name than the Malagasy name. I don't know Malagasy orthography, but I wouldn't think it could be worse than the French one... Jon Harald Søby (talk) 10:47, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

the dismemberment plan gets rich.

I only know of this city because it's mentioned in the song The Dismemberment Plan Gets Rich. That is all. riffic (talk) 15:16, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Reference for article rewrite

I'm prioritizing this article and hope to have it complete and at FA sometime in 2014. References below.Lemurbaby (talk) 02:16, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

• this book gives an overview of the history of Tana. Lemurbaby (talk) 17:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
• growth, commercial space and markets
• complete history of Tana to 2007
• great summary of colonial period in Tana

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Antananarivo/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Brigade Piron (talk · contribs) 13:41, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

First comments

Hello. I'm delighted to offer to review this - you've done a really cracking job on this article and there's very little still to do. Comments to follow. Incidentally, I have made a few corrections (as I'm sure you've noticed) to the French in the article - I'm assuming that orthodox French is spoken, so if not please revert. I'm certainly no expert. —Brigade Piron (talk) 13:41, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, BP - it's my first attempt at a city article, but as one of only three Vital Articles about Madagascar (the others being Madagascar and Rainilaiarivony), it had to get done. :) Thank you for offering to review it so quickly after I posted it on the GA nom page, where so many articles languish for half a year...! - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

The main issues seem to be consistent style things but there are a couple of referencing issues too. All very minor, of course. —Brigade Piron (talk) 13:57, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

• "The city of Antananarivo was originally the site of a town called Analamanga, meaning "Blue Forest" in the central highlands dialect of the Malagasy language." - Ref please.

• Done. I put references at the end of all the info that comes from them, but for clarity I've just repeated that ref immediately after that sentence. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• Can you check the bracketed Malagasy words to make sure that they are all consistently capitalized or uncapitalised? There's a mix at the moment. Similarly, I don't believe rugby in the lead needs a capital letter.

• I think I've addressed all of them. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• There's at least one tag still to be addressed already.

• Done. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• "LMS missionaries"? A link, full name and/or explanation might be nice.

• Added. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• All street names to the French original please (there's at least one mention of "Independence Avenue").

• I think I got all of them. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• "...that intersect at their highest point to form a y shape" => "...to form a "Y" shape".

• Edited. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• Ville moyenne etc. only need to be explained once in the text. Future uses can just use the French term. Plus, for consistency, after the introduction please use either the French or the English term consistently.

• Should be fixed now. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• The "architecture" section could do with at least one or two more references ideally

• Done. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• Please change "%" to the English "percent" which is prescribed by an MOS, I believe. It is already done in some instances anyway.

• Done. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• Be careful that French and Malagasy terms are consistently italicized.

• I think I've now caught all of these... - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• At lease one reference needed in the "Education" section for the non-University level part.

• Done. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• "Health and sanitation" could use some wikilinks to some of the diseases and things (plague, vehicle exhaust etc.) mentioned.

• Added. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

• The first paragraph of "Transport and communications" is unreferenced. Ditto the last section of paragraph 3 which could also use links to the companies mentioned.

• Fixed. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

That's all for now. Perhaps also consider a list of communes/cantons/administrative districts if they exist. —Brigade Piron (talk) 13:57, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

• I'm working on several maps for the FA version that should have the names of neighborhoods, the arrondissement layout (they are just numbered, dull but informative, and possibly expansion of the city over time. - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Second comments

Thanks for addressing the issues so promptly, and sorry for the delay on my part. Still a couple of minor things, then I'll be happy to pass it.10:13, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

• The acronym CUA should be extrapolated at its first mention in the body of the article, as well as the lead

• This was there in the lead and when it's mentioned under the government section, but I've now added it on the first appearance in the body (in the architecture section) as well. I'd like to keep it a second time in the body in the government section since that's where it becomes most important to know what it stands for. - Lemurbaby (talk) 02:47, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Likewise, all place names should be linked at least once. Linking Suzhou but not Montreal implies a knowledge about the reader and their cultural horizons that we just don't have.

• Done. I'm one of the most vehement advocates for eliminating bias. This was just an oversight (Nice was linked). - Lemurbaby (talk) 02:49, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• "Communications services in Antananarivo are the best in the country. Internet and mobile phone networks are readily available and affordable, although disruptions in service occur periodically." Cite please.

• Done. - Lemurbaby (talk) 02:47, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Link to Jean Laborde and a redlink to the Museum of Art and Archaeology (Antananarivo).

• Laborde is linked on the first occurrence (the history section). Redlink for museum added. - Lemurbaby (talk) 02:47, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Oh yes, my mistake! —Brigade Piron (talk) 18:05, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• It might be worth bringing all your citations down into the template:Sfn format - just personally, I feel the mix of full links and sfn book links a bit disordered and unnecessary. There is no reason why websites or journalistic articles cannot be treated the same as books and moved to the References section in full?

• This wasn't the way I was "taught" to use SFN (no judgment - it's just not the way I know), so all my articles are done in this way (books with SFN, and the rest without it). But I'm open to making changes to my standard approach when it's an improvement. :) What are the benefits of making the switch? I'll adjust how I do things from here on out if I understand that it makes sense to do it, although since this is a preference question let's not hold up the GA for this. I would just adopt the new style for future articles and maybe work retroactively on updating the others once the work of beefing up critical but underdeveloped articles is further along. - Lemurbaby (talk) 02:47, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• I agree that this is not a big deal for GA. Personally, I think it makes it cleaner for the reader - perhaps it's just me, but using sfn for books and citing websites directly implies that the sources are of different value. Why should some references be in "References", and other not? Plus, if the reader wants to know what sources to look at one the topic, going to the "References" section won't really provide the full picture anyway! —Brigade Piron (talk) 18:05, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• I assume you're using AmENG? If so, please put the Template:American English or similar on the talk page.

• Done. - Lemurbaby (talk) 02:47, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Lemurbaby? —Brigade Piron (talk) 14:14, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

• sorry- I didn't have this page on my watch list somehow. Will get started now. - Lemurbaby (talk) 23:16, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

• Done with these round II edits. - Lemurbaby (talk) 02:49, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

• Cracking work. I'm delighted to pass this now and I wish you all the best if you want to push it to FAR. —Brigade Piron (talk) 18:05, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

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Bibliographic suggestions by Didier Nativel

• C. Fournet-Guérin, Vivre à Tananarive. Géographie du changement dans la capitale malgache, Paris, Karthala, 2007, 427 p.
• D. Nativel, « Architecture et métissage culturel en Imerina au XIXe siècle » in Annuaire des Pays de l’Océan Indien, Vol. XVII, 2003, p. 193-207.
• D. Nativel, Maisons royales, Demeures des Grands. L'inscription de la réussite sociale dans l'espace urbain de Tananarive au XIXe siècle, Paris, Karthala, 2005, 377 p.
• D. Nativel, « À chacun selon ses moyens. Pratiques d'appropriation et construction de modes de vie citadins à Tananarive au XIXe siècle », in Afrique & histoire 1/2006 (vol. 5), p. 47-64.
• D. Nativel, « Le Zoma de Tananarive durant l’époque coloniale (fin XIXe siècle - années 1960) » in F. Rajaonah, D. Bois (dir.), Marchés urbains de Madagascar, XIXe-XXe siècles. Antananarivo, Antsirabe, Antsiranana, Paris, L’Harmattan, 2007, p. 29-66.
• F. Raison-Jourde, « Modes étrangères et fastes urbains dans l’Ouest de l’océan Indien, 1820-1914 », in Recherche Pédagogie et Culture, n°67, Juillet-août, 1984, p. 41-46.
• F. Raison-Jourde, Bible et pouvoir à Madagascar au XIXe siècle. Invention d'une identité chrétienne et construction de l'Etat, Paris, Karthala, 1991, 834 p.
• F. Rajaonah (Esoavelomandroso), « Discours colonial et transformations de l’’espace urbain : Tananarive dans l’entre-deux-guerres », in Cahiers du CRA n°7, 1989, p. 83-106.
• F. Rajaonah (Esoavelomandroso), Elites et notables à Antananarivo dans la première moitié du XXe siècle, Thèse d'État, Lyon II, 1997, 1080 p.
• H. Rajaonarison, «L'essor de la photographie de studio à Antananarivo dans les années 1930», in Etudes Océan Indien n°44, 2010, p. 99-120.
• H. Rajaonarison, « Images de fêtes à Antananarivo (1958-1960). Quels sont les temps forts de l’indépendance pour les Malgaches ? », in O. Goerg, J-L. Martineau, D. Nativel, Les indépendances en Afrique. L’événement et ses mémoires 1957/1960-2010, Rennes, PUR, 2013, p. 253-271.
• J-R. Randrimaro, «Identité et métissages culturels chez les descendants d’esclaves de Tananarive dans les années 1960-1980», F. Rajaonah (dir.), Cultures citadines dans l’océan Indien occidental (XVIIIe-XXIe). Pluralisme, échanges, inventivité, Paris, Karthala, 2011, p. 243-258.

Recommendation collected during the ECAS workshop Workshop ECAS Basel 2017 - Literature and sources about African cities and open access. --Iopensa (talk) 14:14, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. A link to these citations has been added to Timeline of Antananarivo#Bibliography. --- M2545 (talk) 12:03, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

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