Talk:Alexander Mackenzie

Requested move 4 March 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: To be moved. Note: the second part of the move will require admin assistance, which I will request at WP:RMT. (non-admin closure)  — Amakuru (talk) 11:53, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

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• Alexander Mackenzie (disambiguation) → Alexander Mackenzie
• Alexander Mackenzie → Alexander Mackenzie (politician)

– After some deliberation I have come to the conclusion that Alexander Mackenzie's undisambiguated article does not satisfy the requirements set out to be the primary topic. Sure, he was Prime Minister; it's pretty hard to top that in terms of notability. But I am fairly confident that Alexander Mackenzie (explorer), the article about the famous explorer who is considered one of Canada's greatest, manages to stack up against the PM with ease. Let's check WP:PRIMARYTOPIC:

• A topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term. I don't think this is true. When checking stats, the undisambiguated PM Alexander Mackenzie managed 5494 views over the latest 90 days provided. However, the disambiguated article for the explorer managed 7016. I think this is pretty surprising; even assuming there are false positives that hit the PM's article, the explorer still trumps the PM with ease. This means that the PM is certainly not highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term.
• Of course, page views are not everything, so I did a Google Books search for "alexander mackenzie" plain. The first result was a biography of the explorer, then a biography of the PM, then three books about the explorer. This proves that reliable sources do not consider the PM far more historically important than the explorer.
• Helpful for readers. Both of these Alexander Mackenzies are rather well-known Canadian historical figures. I could easily see someone searching Alexander Mackenzie and being confused by landing on an undisambiguated article about the PM. Heck, the first message left on the PM's talk page was someone asking where the article on the explorer was. I believe that making the main page a DAB serves readers the best.
• Long-term significance. Both of these men have been dead for a very long time, so their legacies have already been established.
• Historical importance. The PM lead the country while the explorer is considered one of the greatest in history. It is not unprecedented for major historical figures to be disambiguated; for instance, Founding Father George Clinton is not considered the primary topic of George Clinton.

In short, neither of these men have a good claim at being the primary topic, so the DAB page occupying the main, undisambiguated title is the best choice. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 19:13, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support—I was going to oppose, as the PM was the only Alexander Mackenzie I was familiar with, but then I checked out Google Books. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:51, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
• 'Support I was also going to oppose before reading the above and seeing Alexander Mackenzie (disambiguation)...In 2016, Alexander Mackenzie (explorer) was also named a National Historic Person. So got my vote -- Moxy (talk) 08:39, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support - my Google search ("-wikipedia") is dominated by the explorer, with the PM first coming in at 6th hit. Possibly the explorer is the Primary Topic ... but for now let's move the dab to the base name as "No Primary Topic" scenario. PamD 23:53, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I agree with your position ...but think the reason the first hits are of the explorer is that he has been in the news alot lately because this year he was named a Canadian historic person. -- Moxy (talk) 17:55, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support. Excellent analysis and research by nom. Andrewa (talk) 12:10, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
• Wow, beat Lewis & Clark across North America by 12 years. I did not know that. Consensus is to move, but as over 400 pages link to Alexander Mackenzie, we should do some preliminary disambiguation so as not to be too disruptive to Project Disambiguation. wbm1058 (talk) 00:21, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

  I disambiguated the templates, now waiting for the WP:Job queue to clear the links up, and see what's left. wbm1058 (talk) 01:26, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

  From 409, down to 263 links. wbm1058 (talk) 12:38, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

  @Wbm1058: I've finished tidying up the links to Alexander Mackenzie. Most were to the politician, though some were bad links for the explorer, the composer, and a couple for others. Will now request the page move at WP:RMT. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 18:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.