Talk:Albert Gallatin

VP nomination?

I plan to look into this when I can find the time, but I'm optimistic (and lazy) enough to hope that someone in the community knows the answer off the top of his or her head: The article states that Gallatin was nominated for vice president in 1824; but if I recall my "civics" correctly, the VP (like the president) is Constitutionally required to be born a US citizen. Since Gallatin was born in Switzerland, how can this be? DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 19:16, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

the Constitution allows Gallatin in (citizenship in 1788 is all that's required: "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible" ). The problem was he had been forgotten, had no political base of support and had lost interest in politics & had turned to anthropology. Rjensen (talk) 19:36, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

But he didn't become a citizen until 1789, yes? According to the biography I happen to have in front of me, "...he emigrated to the United States in 1780, at the age of 19, and under the terms of the Articles of Confederation of 1781, gained legal citizenship after nine years of residency..." I know I'm picking nits here -- he must have met the requirement or he wouldn't have been nominated, and I'm aware that he withdrew for other reasons -- just curious about the particulars. Thanks for your reply. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 19:57, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

The article says "In 1785, he became an American citizen after he swore allegiance to the state of Virginia" which if accurate would deal with the 1788 point while still being consistent with being expelled from the senate after being elected in 1793 because he had not been a citizen for the required nine years prior to election.12:56, 20 February 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:148A:9B01:8078:6A95:9D09:1B68 (talk)

U.S. Citizenship

The article says Gallatin swore allegiance to Virginia. How does that make him a U.S. Citizen? Cmguy777 (talk) 21:44, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

The National Park Service bio on Gallatin says nothing about Gallatin becoming a U.S. Citizen. Cmguy777 (talk) 06:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

• Albert Gallatin NPS

Gallatin did take an oath of allegiance to Virginia, although he resided in Pennsylvania. Adam's bio says by the laws of his native country he was considered a minor. I am taking that to mean Geneva. More importantly, Adam's bio said that Gallatin considered himself an American, not that he was, in fact, an American. The Life of Albert Gallatin Henry Adams (1879) page 62. It also sounds as if Gallatin was neutral during the American Revolution. He did not take sides. He was more concerned with his business. Cmguy777 (talk) 22:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I think a note would be appropriate in the article concerning Gallatin's citizenship. As far as I know, there was no formal process to obtain U.S. Citizenship in 1785. I am not sure what the Articles of Confederation say on that matter. Gallatin's oath of allegiance should have been to the United States. Cmguy777 (talk) 15:16, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

It seems Gallatin's citizenship is in question. The AOC just says states have sovereignty. It says nothing about citizenship. Also, Gallatin swore allegiance to a state he did not live in Virginia. Adams says Gallatin considered himself a U.S. Citizen, but that does not make him one. The NPS does not say Gallatin was a U.S. Citizen. Cmguy777 (talk) 21:39, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Article I, section 2, clause 2[1] of the United States Constitution states explicitly that one must have "been seven Years a Citizen of the United States" to serve in the United States House of Representatives. Gallatin served in that body as a representative from Pennsylvania from 1795 to 1801. This makes quite clear that Gallatin was a citizen of the United States when he was sworn into an office that required it. Anwegmann (talk) 00:54, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

And the Articles of Confederation does, in fact, say something about citizenship. In Article IV, it explicitly establishes that "the free inhabitants of each of these states, paupers, vagabonds and fugitives from Justice excepted, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several states"[2]. This is a clear expression of a "blanket citizenship"—and, indeed, the creation of U.S. citizenship itself—connecting citizenship in one state to citizenship in all states (and thus the nation itself). So when Gallatin, under the Articles of Confederation, took an oath of allegiance to Virginia, he became a citizen of every state, and thus the United States as a whole.

So, it seems, he became a citizen in 1785, at the very latest. You can also see this in the fact that he was denied a seat in the Senate in 1793 because he had only been a citizen for seven years—two years short of the nine required by the Constitution. See these sources: [3] and [4]. Additionally, here is a pretty good summary of Gallatin's argument that he actually became a citizen with the adoption of the Articles of Confederation in 1781: [5]. Anwegmann (talk) 01:16, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

He was denied a Senate Seat in 1793 because he was not a full citizen. The Constitution wiped out the AOC. Also, Gallatin took allegiance to Virginia, a state he did not reside in. He resided in Pennsylvania. There is also some dispute about Geneva, him being a minor. Maybe under Geneva law, he could not expatriate until he turned a certain age. All I am saying is clarification is needed in the article about his citizenship status. Cmguy777 (talk) 16:14, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Gallatin took an oath of allegiance to a state, Virginia, which he did not inhabit. He lived in Pennsylvania in 1785. Also, the AOC says nothing about oaths of allegiance to a state that makes the person a citizen. The IV AOC article had to do with free travel between states. Cmguy777 (talk) 17:23, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

That is not a correct reading of Article IV of the Articles of Confederation. Anwegmann (talk) 17:29, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

But even if you go by allegiance to a state, he did not live in Virginia. He would have to make allegiance to Pennsylvania, which he did not. He was an inhabitant of Pennsylvania. His citizenship was questioned because he was denied a Senate run. Cmguy777 (talk) 17:34, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

He lived in Western Pennsylvania, which was in fact considered Virginia at that time. We don't have any good articles on Wikipedia about that boundary dispute, but Westsylvania, touches on it. Victoria (tk) 19:42, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

The Pennsylvania-Virginia dispute was settled in 1780. Was Gallatin's home on the Virginia side? Cmguy777 (talk) 04:58, 17 July 2022 (UTC)