File talk:RogerHowarthToddManning2011.jpg

OLTL vs. GH

While I get why the image has been reverted, at the same time, it's still Roger Howarth and the cameras for General Hospital are HDTV and is over-all, a much clearly and better image than the original one. I believe it should be kept as the GH capture. _{MusicFreak7676} ^TALK! 17:39, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I completely agree with Musicfreak here, I compared the two pics, mine is a little grainy while his pic is clearer and better and plus it's him on GH and the cameras are alot better on GH than OLTL. I also believe it should be kept as the main one, I'm not gonna start an edit war over this, this is why I'm talking it out. P.J. (talk) 18:06, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi again, Musicfreak. I cannot see how the version you uploaded is better than the image I reverted to. Judge the image on the facial expressions presented and how they capture Todd (who is cited as a good-looking man), rather than whether or not an image is HD. Your version should be used because it's HD? I do not understand that argument. I can't even tell that it is HD by looking at it. He looks even more awful in it than in the previous one. I reverted because, as stated, changing the main picture of Todd caused uproar last time; if that taught us anything, it is that something like this should be discussed before a change is made. I also reverted because, as stated, the compromise from before was that we would have an updated image of Todd but that I could choose an image that I feel will satisfy everyone. Do you expect me not to follow through with that part of the compromise? Even if we were to keep your version, I'd still upload a different main image because I am not satisfied with either image. Flyer22 (talk) 18:09, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

More of my reasoning for keeping the current image a bit longer, until I find an image that I feel all three of us will agree on, can be found in this diff. I really don't see how it matters if it's a picture from One Life to Live or General Hospital, as long as it's not an outdated look and since "it's still Roger Howarth." I will try to find an HD image if I do look for a General Hospital replacement. Musicfreak can also present more images on this talk page and see if we can find one that we all agree on. Flyer22 (talk) 18:53, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Why is about what you find is right or the image you feel should be up. I don't see the problem with my image. I find it looks better in mine, it's clearer, sharper and he looks better. I'm not satisfied with the One Life image. I think it's a bad, horribly filmed photo of Roger, who is a semi-decent looking man you could say. Not my type, but that's besides the point. And from my understanding, it caused an uproar because he had just returned to the series and the previous image was from the 1990's. _{MusicFreak7676} ^TALK! 19:10, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I happen to agree with Musicfreak again flyer, why is it about you who gets to decide on what's right about the image, I hardly remember making that agreement with you, in fact I think I did no such thing and if I did again I wasn't thinking, this isn't your article, just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean other people won't like it. P.J. (talk) 19:38, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

If it was all about me, the long-standing image would still be up there. But Wikipedia is about discussing, teamwork and compromising, in addition to presenting reliably sourced material. I didn't get my way last time because it was about pleasing everyone, which is why a compromise was made. A compromise that I've already made clear to you both. Yes, it was made, Soapfan2013. Maybe you should go read over the discussion again or look at this diff (where you called me a "he"). Your "I wasn't in my right mind" excuse holds no bearing here. Musicfreak, you don't like the image you want to replace? Neither do I. But I do feel that it's better than the image you uploaded, for the reasons I've already stated. And now here we are, dealing with another disagreement about the main image for Todd. Maybe we'd be dealing with it even if I'd already taken up my end of the compromise. But it's time to try another compromise. You see it as being all about me, while I see it as being all about you guys. What you want. Just like last time. Again, it was me who didn't get my way, not the other way around. Again, a compromise was made. I am trying to compromise again now, like you should be trying to do. And as a compromise, I offered you to present images on this talk page so that we may come across one that all three of us can agree on. Instead, you took that opportunity to blast me, as though I am going to change my mind. If you don't want to present images on this talk page, then I can, because I am not going to agree to using the image you uploaded. And an uproar was caused last time because the image, which was from 2002, was changed when a few editors (myself included) were content with the previous one (in which Todd looked hardly any different than he does now). And as for your comment that Howarth/Todd "is a semi-decent looking man," I commented on his physical appearance because he is often cited as good-looking and his good looks have been cited by the soap opera community and in scholarly texts as having significantly contributed to his success. So it only seems natural to me that we go with a main image that best displays his perceived good looks. It makes sense to me to use the image where one looks best in any article about an actor/character, and, in my opinion, that is the current image of Howarth/Todd. You disagree. Yes, I know that you do. That's why we're here at this talk page. To work this out. And, Soapfan2013, when you say that you are not going to argue with someone anymore, it's usually best to stick to that. Such as now. Flyer22 (talk) 20:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

If it were up to me, neither RH nor TSJ would have screencaps as their appearance. They'd have cast photographs. I was not included in the previous discussions concerning the image. All I was trying to do was bring a more current viewing of Todd to the table. While I believe he shouldn't even be on the series, he is. I can't change that. I would provide images if more were available. When some do become available, I am more than willing to provide some to the table. I'm not trying to make it what "we" want, but you're sure making it seem like it's "your way" like this image and the page is yours. I like the image I chose. I feel it represents Howarth as well as it could in the role of Todd. It's a clearer image and a much crisper image than that from One Life. _{MusicFreak7676} ^TALK! 20:35, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I think aslong as it is Todd - it should not matter which show - aslong as he looks the same as he did in the series that he is most notable. However - the image probably should not have been changed in the first place. What I can see here is round two of a game previously played out here. In this discussion a series of new accounts and IP's (with no other contribs aside from this image discussion) voiced support for a change in image. Support came from the following:

• Llanview Citizen - An account that was newly registered and has thus far only contributed to talk of Todd's image
• 98.208.20.49 - The unsigned comment bot revealed this IP to be connected to Llanview Citizen
• 69.122.177.0 - Whose only contribs were to take part in the image discussion
• 218.204.254.118 - Whose only contribs were to take part in the image discussion
• Soapfan/PJ - Who recently admitted that he has been socking

So Soapfan gets the get out jail free card - and what do you know - he is now resuming an old battle to change this image yet again - even after it was changed as a result of a game. I'm just highlighting here - that the accusation that Flyer is sole arbiter on this matter despite this "support" for a change is quite flawed. In that I mean - I agree that there was no need to change. And the support? Well that was a result of meat/sockpuppetry.Rain the 1 20:38, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Musicfreak7676, just because I have disagreed with each of the recent changes made for a Todd Manning image...it doesn't mean that I am WP:OWNING the article. While I am protective of the article because I have liked this character since age 10 and built this article essentially from scratch, it's not like I'm constantly reverting editors on it and telling them what they can and cannot add to the article. I'm all about this article being its best, and that means the best (or at least a good) image to top it off. What I've been doing each time is trying to have an image that everyone is satisfied with. Why should my feelings about the main image be discounted, when I am the main contributor to the article? I shouldn't say "Wait, guys, let's find an image that I am satisfied with too"? If so, I disagree with that. You don't need to keep repeating why you prefer the image you've uploaded. I'm not going to agree. When editors are at an impasse like this, they should either try to reach a compromise or take the matter to the wider community. Constantly trying to convince the other that they are right usually does not work. And, really, it's not like we should have an image of the character from General Hospital, as well as in HD, especially since, like you stated, "it's still Roger Howarth." Flyer22 (talk) 20:58, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Then we'll just keep the One Life image, then. Because I did not intend to open a Pandora's Box of past discussions. If you feel that the first image should stay, then fine. Keep it. It's done. _{MusicFreak7676} ^TALK! 21:04, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Musicfreak, I don't feel that the current image should stay. I still have plans to change it. I'm just saying that now that we're all here at this discussion page, it is a great opportunity to go through images and come to an agreement on one that way. Much better than adding a main image that one or two (or three if you count Raintheone) may object to and having another edit war. I want us all to be satisfied with the main image. Flyer22 (talk) 21:15, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Exactly - I will not be changing any image to suit myself Musicfreak. However, I would make a change, if it suited everyone from the end result of a fair discussion.Rain the 1 21:18, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I did find [1] for an image. I don't know how you both would feel about such an image being uploaded. But it's closer than my image and in a much better quality than the image up now. _{MusicFreak7676} ^TALK! 21:25, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I can agree to that, Musicfreak. Thanks. It just needs to be resized, of course, preferably also cutting out the blond hair portion. And if I find an image that I prefer, you would rather I bring it to this talk page or the article talk page and see if we can all agree on it first, right? Flyer22 (talk) 21:32, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I can crop of the portion of Laura Wright's hair when shrinking it. Possibly this talk page I feel would be appropriate? Or do you feel Todd is? _{MusicFreak7676} ^TALK! 21:39, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. If no one objects to it, you are of course free to add it to the article as the main image. Regarding future discussion of possibilities for a main image, it depends on whether or not this image file will be discarded upon a change. So far, a new image has been uploaded onto it and then reverted. But editors are also known to completely discard the existing file when adding a new image, which obviously causes the talk page to be lost. So it's probably best to transport this discussion to the Todd Manning talk page. We don't know have to do that right now, though, unless you plan to discard the existing file. Flyer22 (talk) 21:51, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the talk page is never lost unless deleted as well. Don't know what I was thinking, LOL. But maybe it would still be best to have this discussion transported to the Todd Manning talk page. I'd rather hold off on that for now, to avoid WP:Trolls who would use some sort of IP address to blast me. Flyer22 (talk) 21:58, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

To be honest, that new pic that Musicfreak just posted in that link, I like that one, I have no problem with that pic right there, as long as you don't see Carly's hair at the corner than that should be good. I'll go with that. P.J. (talk) 22:06, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Note: I like this new image that Sparrowhawk8 uploaded. First Todd Manning image change that I'm satisfied with...without it being a result of a compromise that I've been involved in, and first one that I've truly liked out of all the screenshot images editors other than myself have uploaded. Flyer22 (talk) 21:07, 24 December 2012 (UTC)